Anyone have a question about steam?

[FourEightFour]

I figure I might as well ask. I can answer any questions you might have about running and firing. Also general procedures.

[bpetit]

Firing definitely. How do you know your firing correctly and not overkill?


Edit: 666th post :O

[5292nate]

Firing definitely. How do you know your firing correctly and not overkill?


Edit: 666th post :O

[5292nate]

How do I delete private messages? That list gets REAL long!

[CSX2057]

How do I delete private messages? That list gets REAL long!

Go into you PM. Click Mark all just below the Mark/Unmark as important. That will check mark all your messages. Click the down arrow>Delete marked>Go. Done deal.\

Before you delete them all, look at your messages in case you need to keep some.

[5292nate]

I meant on Steam. This is the Steam Q&A thread!

[hertsbob]

[CSX2057]

Whoops, I though the steam question meant about steam engines. DOH!

[5292nate]

*!embar*! Whoops, I though the steam question meant about steam engines. DOH!

We all do that! Sometimes, my forehead bleeds!

[hertsbob]

Hang on. It does!

I can answer any questions you might have about running and firing. Also general procedures.

Could some kind soul please confirm that I haven't gone completely mad?

[5292nate]

Ohh CRAP. I'm NOT HERE! I can't believe I did that!

[FourEightFour]

How do you know your firing correctly and not overkill?

Bear with me on my run-on sentences, for I am tired.

It is an art form with a splash of science. I have fired with mostly oil and a little bit of coal. I will talk about coal since thats all Railworks models. Coal is pretty easy to fire as coal for the most part takes care of its self. You have to make sure you have a bed of coals covering the entire grate, as this prevents cool spots forming in the firebox, the crown sheet, and cold air being sucked up into the tubes. The hardest spots to get to are usually the corners. The smokestack will tell you quite a lot if you are over firing as it will turn darker and darker. The reason the smoke gets darker is because there is not enough oxygen going into the firebox to meet demands of the fire and un burned fuel in the form of gasses and tiny solids come out the stack as black. What you want to see is a slight haze at the stack, indicating the coal is completely combusting, and a nice bright, even firebox.


Another thing that will tell you if you are over firing is the safety valve. That is the thing(s) on top of the boiler that relieves pressure if the fireman exceeds MAWP (Maximum Allowable Working Pressure). This is a bad thing as it signifies a waste of fuel and water. It's also ear splitting loud. The best measures you can do is tone back how much fuel you have in the firebox and close the dampers. Shutting the dampers starves the coal for oxygen, and you will exponentially pull in colder and colder air, reducing how much steam you are creating. Another thing you can do is add water to the boiler if you have the space.

Here is an example using the Connie as it is simply the most realistic:

Lets say I am running the AT&N Connie up Sherman Hill pulling 500 tons up a 1.5% grade. I am working the engine HARD. Coal is right at the ideal firemass (650 lbs) water is around 85% - 90% of the sight glass. The damper is fully open. We are only making around 20 mph, which is good as that is the speed limit as there are slow orders on this consist. Now I know in about five miles the grade will lessen to 0%. We will not be working the nearly as hard, and since we are slow ordered, we will not need more speed or steam. So at this point I will stop adding water and tone back the fire slightly, but not too much as I still need steam. A mile out I will stop adding coal. Half of a mile out I will shut the dampers. This will cool the fire in anticipation of not needing as much steam. We have made it to the grade change. I have about 575 pounds of coal in the fire box, 1/4 of a sight glass of water, and I am only down around 15 pounds of steam. The engineer will make up any lost speed, and begin to coast. The boiler will then make up any lost steam pressure. It will continue to add more pressure, until it exceeds MAWP. But remember I stopped adding water? I now have 3/4's of a boiler to add water to. I add water using the engineers side injector, starting at 180 PSI and knocking the boiler down to 175 psi. Shutting the water off, then allow the pressure to return, then repeating the cycle. This is how one keeps safeties from lifting.


It is all a balancing act and you have to think a few miles down the grade from where you are at now.

[CSX2057]

great story grandpa! Haha jk.

Speaking of adding water, that's one thing we need to be careful. As you add water from the tender into the boiler it cools the boiler and you lose a lot of psi at a steep grade. My recommendation keep the fire at 75%-80%, that will help to keep the pressure right there as you refill the water as needed. You won't lose any psi. Worked for me.

[mrennie]

How do you know your firing correctly and not overkill?

Bear with me on my run-on sentences, for I am tired.

It is an art form with a splash of science. I have fired with mostly oil and a little bit of coal. I will talk about coal since thats all Railworks models. Coal is pretty easy to fire as coal for the most part takes care of its self. You have to make sure you have a bed of coals covering the entire grate, as this prevents cool spots forming in the firebox, the crown sheet, and cold air being sucked up into the tubes. The hardest spots to get to are usually the corners. The smokestack will tell you quite a lot if you are over firing as it will turn darker and darker. The reason the smoke gets darker is because there is not enough oxygen going into the firebox to meet demands of the fire and un burned fuel in the form of gasses and tiny solids come out the stack as black. What you want to see is a slight haze at the stack, indicating the coal is completely combusting, and a nice bright, even firebox.


Another thing that will tell you if you are over firing is the safety valve. That is the thing(s) on top of the boiler that relieves pressure if the fireman exceeds MAWP (Maximum Allowable Working Pressure). This is a bad thing as it signifies a waste of fuel and water. It's also ear splitting loud. The best measures you can do is tone back how much fuel you have in the firebox and close the dampers. Shutting the dampers starves the coal for oxygen, and you will exponentially pull in colder and colder air, reducing how much steam you are creating. Another thing you can do is add water to the boiler if you have the space.

Here is an example using the Connie as it is simply the most realistic:

Lets say I am running the AT&N Connie up Sherman Hill pulling 500 tons up a 1.5% grade. I am working the engine HARD. Coal is right at the ideal firemass (650 lbs) water is around 85% - 90% of the sight glass. The damper is fully open. We are only making around 20 mph, which is good as that is the speed limit as there are slow orders on this consist. Now I know in about five miles the grade will lessen to 0%. We will not be working the nearly as hard, and since we are slow ordered, we will not need more speed or steam. So at this point I will stop adding water and tone back the fire slightly, but not too much as I still need steam. A mile out I will stop adding coal. Half of a mile out I will shut the dampers. This will cool the fire in anticipation of not needing as much steam. We have made it to the grade change. I have about 575 pounds of coal in the fire box, 1/4 of a sight glass of water, and I am only down around 15 pounds of steam. The engineer will make up any lost speed, and begin to coast. The boiler will then make up any lost steam pressure. It will continue to add more pressure, until it exceeds MAWP. But remember I stopped adding water? I now have 3/4's of a boiler to add water to. I add water using the engineers side injector, starting at 180 PSI and knocking the boiler down to 175 psi. Shutting the water off, then allow the pressure to return, then repeating the cycle. This is how one keeps safeties from lifting.


It is all a balancing act and you have to think a few miles down the grade from where you are at now.

Excellent explanation! It all makes sense. I'm very pleased that the Connie enables you to reproduce the real-life operation very closely. It also goes to show that the underlying simulation in RW4 isn´t bad - it just needs to be used properly to get the most out of it.

I tend to have the safety valves lifting too often, but now I see why. I was keeping the fire mass at 650lbs and the water at about 85% almost all the time, instead of deliberately allowing them to go down in anticipatiohn of deliberately reducing the steam pressure.

[mrennie]

great story grandpa! Haha jk.

Speaking of adding water, that's one thing we need to be careful. As you add water from the tender into the boiler it cools the boiler and you lose a lot of psi at a steep grade. My recommendation keep the fire at 75%-80%, that will help to keep the pressure right there as you refill the water as needed. You won't lose any psi. Worked for me.

Kepe in mind that the water going into the boiler is heated to some extent - it's heated by the injectors, because they mix steam (from the exhaust or from the evaporator) with the water from the tender.