Gradients are broken

[styckx]

Has anyone reported this?

Old way: When your engine hit a gradient it would register in the HUD

New and dumb way: When the last car in your train passes the start of the gradient change it registers on the HUD

Gradient shown in HUD since the entire train has crossed the threshold of where the gradient starts



Gradient not shown because the entire train has not crossed the threshold of where the gradient starts




Now, imagine you're an American railroader dragging a 100 car consist up the side of the mountain.. This is a huge problem.

[buzz456]

Let's see now, train slows down more throttle, train goes faster less throttle maybe some brakes. I don't think real trains have gradient indicators in them.

[styckx]

If you want to get literal I can run down a list of things that are in the game but not in real life and we can nag RSC to remove them since the real ones don't have it. Also, I'm pretty certain engineers know exactly what grades are where between what points etc.. I don't. It's a feature I use to get a jump on throttle advancement, especially when running steam, it's broken, I asked if it's reported..

[Chacal]

This is not new, as far as I know the F4 HUD from RW2 on has always displayed data (including speed) for the last car.
Up to TS2013, the F3 HUD used to show data for the engine, but this HUD was replaced with a new one in TS 2013, which shows the same data as the F4 HUD. So if you report it they'll say it's a feature, not a bug.

I wonder why they do that. I'd much rather have the figures for the engine than for the last car. At least they could display the grade in the F5 HUD, which displays data for the engine.

Meanwhile, both the F3 and the F4 hud display a graphical representation of the gradient, usually this is enough for me to anticipate needed power. I did that on Donner Pass yesterday with success.

[donjgatlin]

Let's see now, train slows down more throttle, train goes faster less throttle maybe some brakes. I don't think real trains have gradient indicators in them.

Actually, some of them do. I know BNSF and Norfolk Southern have implemented a third monitor on some of their locomotives to display terrain data to allow much better control on the train. Where you are dealing with 1-2mile long, 100+ car-length trains, and Distributed Power, I imagine it is a very valuable tool to engineers. While in railworks, however, the best thing to do is to become accustomed to the route. You do not need to use any of the HUD's in the game as there are plenty of signs and signal indications to get you where you need to like in the real world. I personally prefer to drive without any HUD's or on screen displays where possible.

Here is what I'm talking about:

[buzz456]

Sine I spend most of my time driving period stuff, it wouldn't have had it so I have to just pay attention to the aforementioned things.

[styckx]

And seriously (like you did) just ignore me when I get that way.. This whole month I've had irritable male syndrome

[Rich_S]

Let's see now, train slows down more throttle, train goes faster less throttle maybe some brakes. I don't think real trains have gradient indicators in them.

Actually, some of them do. I know BNSF and Norfolk Southern have implemented a third monitor on some of their locomotives to display terrain data to allow much better control on the train. Where you are dealing with 1-2mile long, 100+ car-length trains, and Distributed Power, I imagine it is a very valuable tool to engineers. While in railworks, however, the best thing to do is to become accustomed to the route. You do not need to use any of the HUD's in the game as there are plenty of signs and signal indications to get you where you need to like in the real world. I personally prefer to drive without any HUD's or on screen displays where possible.

Here is what I'm talking about:

That's one of the new AC Evo's and the third screen you are referring to is part of the LEADER system (aka Positive Train Control) (the screen just below the front window is the Leader screen) Honestly most crews hate it and some feel they are going to loose their job because of it. You are correct, it uses GPS to detect where the train is located and uses cell phones to update the onboard computer. Currently a couple of the things leader displays is mile posts, speed limits and gradient. Future updates to LEADER will also include signal status, giving the crew a HUD of the track ahead.

[donjgatlin]

Even though it's off topic, why do they not like it and why do they feel the are going to lose their job because of it? I thought it would help them.

[Rich_S]

Has anyone reported this?

Old way: When your engine hit a gradient it would register in the HUD

New and dumb way: When the last car in your train passes the start of the gradient change it registers on the HUD

Gradient shown in HUD since the entire train has crossed the threshold of where the gradient starts



Gradient not shown because the entire train has not crossed the threshold of where the gradient starts




Now, imagine you're an American railroader dragging a 100 car consist up the side of the mountain.. This is a huge problem.

Bill, I'm thinking RSC thinks this is a good thing because, not only does this apply for gradients it also applies to the speed displayed on the F4 HUD. I'm not sure if this is also the case with the new F3 HUD as I don't use it, but I have the feeling, same problem different HUD.

Rich S.

[Rich_S]

Even though it's off topic, why do they not like it and why do they feel the are going to lose their job because of it? I thought it would help them.

Bill I don't mean to steal your thread, but I'll answer Don's question. The crews don't like it because they have to log into it, so first off it becomes a tattle tale and second they think it's going to cost them jobs because the LEADER system will have the ability to control the train if the crew does not respond within a set period of time. Now let me explain what I mean by tattle tale, on the railroad if you get caught speeding, and I"m not talking 10+ mph over the limit, just a couple of miles per hour over will get you time on the street without pay. Plus the rules say you have to be within 3 mph of the speed limit, so you can't dog it and now LEADER can report if you are dogging it. That is just one example

Some will say that LEADER is a good thing because it can safely operate the train if the crew becomes disabled, but others will say if LEADER can safely operate a train between point A and point B, then why would they need a crew. Think about this for a moment, how would you feel if your boss walked in Wednesday morning and told you here is a new machine that can do your job, we are just putting it in place to help you. You'll have to admit in the back of your mind, if that machine can do everything you can do, why would they need you if things slow down at your place of employment. People don't always view progress as a good thing, remember the caboose? By equipping trains with EOT's the railroads were able to eliminate 3 trainmen positions. Just some food for thought

[buzz456]

This is good, but since we have wandered way off I am going to move this to the Jungle.

[hertsbob]

Aeroplanes still have pilots. And from what I understand they do very little actual flying, but they're still there.

[Rich_S]

Aeroplanes still have pilots. And from what I understand they do very little actual flying, but they're still there.

Bob, It doesn't matter what the truth is when you have a certain amount of mistrust on both sides, management and labor. Some people are slow to accept change especially when they don't trust the people making the changes. I'm sure you've even seen this with the RSC customer base. There is always that certain percentage of people who think a monkey wrench was thrown into the works on purpose, I guess to some extent it's just human nature.

Regards,
Rich S.

P.S. Please keep us posted on the Marias Pass project, at least what you're allowed to tell us. I know some things are hush, hush until close to release date, but please keep use posted.

[mapitts]

Some railroads, mostly regionals have already looked at the idea of 1 man and remote control. Very bad move. If they are hurt 35 cars back when making a shove, who is going to help? I personaly think that there should always be and more than likely always be 2 people in the cab on most US freight mainline trains. If there were no grade crossings this would have already happened. It is dangerous enough with RC units in a yard heavy switching let alone over the road. We play train, but these folks are gambling their lives with it. The tattle tale on the speed thing is known as "trapping". Watched an NS crew get busted pulling on the main off of a branch with no signal indication other than dispatcher train authority. The rule says, " yard speed (15 MPH) until a clear / other signal indication is seen". They got caught with 8 cars at around 25 MPH.