Wabtech FLX Locomotive BEL44C4D #3000

[AmericanSteam]

New electric locomotive.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... 430_000000
More: https://www.wabteccorp.com/locomotive
More: https://www.wabteccorp.com/locomotive/a ... s/flxdrive

[HighBypass]

Interesting! I was initially confused by this statement:

Emissions Reduces the train’s emissions by at least 10 percent.

There is no prime mover install so surely emissions should be zero?

Then I read the locomotive is designed to operate in a Hybrid consist - the penny dropped!

[AmericanSteam]

It's only brought on to power when needed and recharges during braking using the traction motors like an electric vehicle.

[buzz456]

Another silly feel good idea for the eco nuts. How much resources did it take to make this monster?

[AmericanSteam]

The money came from a grant from California resources board, where else, in cooperation with BNSF, as to all the batteries ask the energizer bunny. Just think of it as a very large Tesla.

[EngineerJohn]

The battery box better be made out of tank armor, and like Buzz alluded to, you need a lot of resources to make these things happen and involves very nasty chemicals you don't want anywhere near yourself.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/busi ... texas.html

Some of you may recall this Tesla car fire. It did take fire crews 4 hours to put it out, with enough water to fill a good sized pool.

Scale that up to a locomotive. If one derails and catches fire it's an environmental disaster and then some.

I'm all for new tech. Tesla does amazing work. But these things are giant unstable fireballs waiting to happen, orders of magnitude worse than gas and diesel. We don't quite have good ways to suppress them yet to my knowledge.

[AmericanSteam]

As in any new technology, things go wrong and sometimes horribly. All new technology is always on a learning curve. I was working for a Chevrolet dealership when everything was carburetors with the exception of Corvettes with the Fuel Injection package. I have seen the changes to direct injection, variable valve timing, small displacement turbocharged engines, hybrid cars and trucks, 10 and 12 speed transmissions, all electric medium trucks and mainstream truck and automobile diesels. Usually everything improves. You can do so much in a controlled environment or lab setting. Everything eventually gets field tested.This is where all the weird faults appear with time and miles on the road and how people abuse them. I will say this, if there is a way to abuse anything people will find a way. I have seen this time again. People will destroy a highly technical vehicle in a heartbeat if given their own resources. The EV industry is developing training standards for emergency personnel. The technology is so much improved and improving even more.

[AmericanSteam]

Another silly feel good idea for the eco nuts. How much resources did it take to make this monster?

The big advantage is fuel savings. In this day in age where we have sacrificed fuel independence for "green house gas emissions" fuel costs are a big uncertainty. This is the hedge for that and also to be competitive with the trucking industry. One must remember the trucking industry is considering electric driver-less trucks as well. Railroads must be competitive to survive. The latest information I could find was for 2009 where 3.192 billion gallons were used for freight traffic. https://wasteadvantagemag.com/fuel-in-t ... -industry/

[HighBypass]

Railroads must be competitive to survive.

Are they not already, considering the amount of semi trailers (one shipping container = 1 semi) a freight train can haul?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

The EV industry is developing training standards for emergency personnel. The technology is so much improved and improving even more.

Battery fires in e-cars are already considered very dangerous. What about this locomotive with 100 or more tons of battery aboard? Don't know what the running voltage is, but I suppose at least 600V and with a current capacity of several thousand Amperes, any electrical fire is virtually inextinguishable, and that is before the various metalo-organic chemical compounds catch fire.

[AmericanSteam]

This push towards a quick fix for a either a perceived or real climate crises may lead us down a road of a too quick acceptance of new technology. Science and industry have always used the rational that all advances in technology have its costs and in reality this is correct. We have become better at it with computer modeling but we still get back to the "it looked good on paper" excuse when things go wrong. Time in service is where reality meets with theory.
Ton-miles of freight is cheaper by train but total shipping time has become the issue. Precision scheduling has helped immensely. Railroads are thinking in terms of competition with the trucking industry rather than thinking they would automatically retain the shipping business. Containerized shipping has been the best thing in the last 20 years for railroad. No doubt that the whole shipping industry is going through major changes. The biggest consideration will on be on First and last mile service. Many railroads are leasing trackage to shortline railroads to help facilitate this. A win win situation. The shortline deals directly with the customer and can adapt quickly to their needs and the big railroad gets the freight business and does what it does best.
I have a subscription to Trains Magazine and enjoy the articles on the industry.

[GSkid]

Testing began in California at the start of this year from Stockton to Barstow and ended in April as far as I know. The terrain consists of flat running through the agricultural valley from Stockton to Bakersfield, the steep mountain grade over Tehachapi Pass to Mojave and flat desert running to Barstow. I'm guessing they purposely chose the cooler part of the year to test. Both the valley and the desert average 90s and higher in the summer.

It's their performance at very low and very high ambient temperatures I'm really curious about. Lithium batteries lose capacity as they get colder. So a battery that has 100% capacity at a temp of 75°F, will go down to only 25%-30% capacity once you get close to 32°F and lower. At the higher temps, you have to worry about overheating. Not only will it shorten the overall lifespan of the battery, but it could also make them explode.

This locomotive almost certainly has battery cooling fans to keep the temps down in warm climates. I wonder if they have heating elements to keep battery temps up in colder climates so their capacity doesn't go down.

I own a Goal Zero Yeti 3000 solar generator with a 3,075 Watt-Hour Lithium-ion NMC battery. It has safety monitoring and cooling fans. It doesn't allow charging if the battery hits 32°F on the low end and 113°F on the high end. It also stops me being able to draw power from the battery at temps -4°F and 149°F respectively.

In the solar generator world (excluding deep cycle lead-acid based systems) there are two main lithium battery types.... Lithium NMC (Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt Oxide).... and LiFePO4 or LFP battery (Lithium Iron Phosphate).

NMC's main advantages over LFP are a higher power density and typically cheaper upfront cost than an LFP battery of the same watt-hour capacity. So an LFP battery of the same exact physical size as an NMC battery, will pack less watt-hours of battery capacity.

NMC's main disadvantages are that it's batteries are more prone to exploding if the battery ever overheats (NMC Thermal runaway 210°C (410°F). High charge promotes thermal runaway. .... Vs..... LFP Thermal runaway 270°C (518°F) Very safe battery even if fully charged) ... or is punctured by a hard object. LFP batteries are far less susceptible in both of those attributes.

While my Goal Zero's NMC battery is rated for 500 cycles to reach 80% of it's original capacity, an LFP can get 3-5 times that amount of cycles. That also depends on battery temps and what your charge/discharge range is. Also.... LFP has a little bit longer charge shelf life. Tesla is slowly moving to LFP batteries. Goal Zero currently doesn't offer a LFP battery option or upgrade. I'm not even for sure if my current charge controller is compatible with an LFP battery even if they were to offer such an option in the future.


The chart from battery university in the link below shows keeping a battery charge/discharge range of 65%-75% capacity gives your battery the longest overall lifespan.... with a 45%-75% being the 2nd best range..... 25%-75% being the 3rd best ..... and progressively worse as the chart shows for other ranges.

https://batteryuniversity.com/_img/cont ... s-web2.jpg


I keep mine in the 65%-75% range the majority of the time, but I will go as low as 45% if I need to draw from it for an extended time. I've had it over 3 years and it's still going strong.

[BNSFdude]

If you look into the locomotive on Wabtecs site, they mention a full HVAC suite to keep the batteries conditioned properly. My curiousity is in how many KWh the HVAC system needs in the extremes to do so.

[AmericanSteam]

More from Union Pacific on electric locomotives. https://www.trains.com/trn/union-pacifi ... 507_000000
Still no comments on the added usage to the electrical grid. Again the question, what happens when the power goes out?

[BNSFdude]

More from Union Pacific on electric locomotives. https://www.trains.com/trn/union-pacifi ... 507_000000
Still no comments on the added usage to the electrical grid. Again the question, what happens when the power goes out?

What happens when you run out of fuel? That question is a non-starter. Railroads run locomotives dry more often than you think because their internal communications skills are less than elementary.