Railworks America

Hi all,

(Whoohoo, my first post in the The Jungle!)

I have a question: I receive the occasional PM and email with questions and requests, which in itself I have absolutely no problem with (quite on the contrary, it can often be inspirational or help discover bugs). However, a surprising number of these messages are what I perceive to be lacking in etiquette. I've learned that a letter, even an informal one, requires an opening, the main text, ending, and signature. And I'm not overly picky I reckon, something like "Hey, [text], cheers, [name]" already makes me happy. But when I receive messages that consist only of the text (one-liners like "How can I install x/y/z?") then this sounds rude to me and I tend to not even bother to reply.

Now to get to my actual question: Am I on the wrong track here? Have times moved on and this truncated style of communication has become acceptable when contacting strangers? I'm not a native speaker of English and only very rarely use "social media" so I'm hoping somebody here will share their opinions.

Cheers!
Michael

IMO, you're completely right. Perhaps a "signature" I find to be a bit unnecessary; however, I think it should be a step above a forum post and even then...

As long as it starts with something like "hi/hey xxxxx" and ends with some sort of thanks it's fine with me.

Michael
IMO you are right in your expectations, regrettably many social media users consider that manners and politeness are old fashioned outdated and obsolete. They are actually what makes humans one level above the other animals although I am sure that many major city dwellers often wonder about whether we are one level above or below.
I think that some people think because your name is credited with so much (excellent) work, you are fair game as you are not so much a person (with talent) more an “ item”. The vast majority of folk are greatly appreciative and respectful.

It likely has died out in favor of typical text/instant messaging speech where communication is streamlined to cut right to the point and communicate directly for quick and easy interpretation and understanding.

I strictly use traditional writing methods for formal communications where professionalism is important, elsewhere aI do not.

Living in your mom's basement is apparently not a good place to learn any social graces. I am constantly seeing signs of a breakdown of the art of being polite to each other in communications. I think all it started when we stopped opening doors for the ladies and the old folks. I am a believer in doing just what you have done Michael when people don't bother to be aware that they are requesting some of your time and that is just to ignore them. All anyone needs to get a serious response from me is start out with 'can you help me?' instead of the famous 'I followed the instructions exactly why doesn't it work?' when dozens if not hundreds have done the same thing without a peep.

Thanks all for your comments!

So my hunch was right, that's a shame. It seems to be a translatlantic phenomenon then. But I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who's saddened by this development.

buzz456 wrote:I am constantly seeing signs of a breakdown of the art of being polite to each other in communications.

I've noticed that too. Even more so since I moved to the Czech Republic, where everyday behaviour is a bit more "traditional" (you greet people, you hold open doors, you vacate your bus/tram seat for the elderly or anybody else who might need it more than you, ...) The difference to several other countries that I've been in before, including my home country, is quite noticable.

Cheers!
Michael

Hey Michael,

I think you have hit on a sore subject of many older and well educated Humans. From what I have heard from others in foreign countries other than my native USA or English speaking countries, this is not just a problem that inflicts English speaking societies. I have had these same messages sent to me, and I do exactly as many here do, ignore these messages. And just to bring up something else, there are the messages that are not reread for errors and corrected and as you know this can sometimes cause misleading statements in the messages. And the removal of perfectly fine and none offensive statements from posts and the moderator justifies these removals with insulting remarks and never removes their offensive posts. There are a lot of etiquette problems involved with communications between members of many forums and social media. Unless these problems are brought forward and presented to the membership then nothing can come from any attempt to change things. But, as far as the etiquette of communications goes, I doubt many of the uneducated may have a hard time making the changes asked for as they have no understanding of these etiquette protocols.

Another problem I have seen is people asking for help and then after one answers the question or explains the procedure the OP never thanks the responder for their help.

Thank you.

I've had numerous contacts with you, Michael, and you have always been friendly and cordial. Unfortunately, we deal with too many people who feel entitled and have no concept of appreciation. One of the things I like about RWA is the general attitude among us. I left another forum because it became a "bashing" game.

I think style and etiquette have taken a "back seat" due to many poor examples around us. My wife and I taught manners and respect to our children and now to our grandchildren.

I think high standards of communication and conduct are critical to the success of this and other forums. I respect the work of our Administrators and enjoy a forum free from "rants." Thank you all.

Harry

I tend to be more lenient of spelling online because people are from other countries, thus their English isn't perfect (neither is mine haha). People have disabilities and can't spell or whatever so as long as I can make out what you're saying I have no problems. Obviously in person it's a completely different story.

GreatNortherner wrote:Am I on the wrong track here? Have times moved on and this truncated style of communication has become acceptable when contacting strangers? I'm not a native speaker of English and only very rarely use "social media" so I'm hoping somebody here will share their opinions.

You're not wrong. It's a problem even at the collegiate level that students will email professors in increasingly informal ways (It doesn't help some professors enable it).

I don't mind the informal speech in most situations (especially if I already know the person). I might respond a little slower if the message is from some random user, who has decided to ask me a question and has not written the message well, or lacks formality.

Oh My! Michael I hope I'm in the proper group. You are a creator that is, not only talented, but have graciousness to help those in need and you do it quite unselfishly and rapidly; thus many thanks.

Civility and Education is not a «as been concept». On the contrary, with the ever present ease of communication accentuated by social networks need of «civility» is an imperative. I'm probably from the old school but I still open doors to ladies and, even men. I love a smile and a hello. Till now, I find that this forum, our forum, to be fairly respectful and I thank all my co-simmers for their contribution to keep all exchanges respectful, courteous and polite,

Merci, Michael to share your sound observations.

QcRail,

Great comments from everyone. We to keep it civil on here and it is only with great regret are things deleted or locked and as you all know it doesn't have to happen often. The thing to remember for all of us is before you push the submit button to think of what the person on the other end is going to think you are saying not necessarily what your words are meaning. Most all of us work darn hard at what we make or know or do or have experienced and the worst anyone can do is talk down to people. Social graces are probably more important in these kinds or forums than in person because in person your face often expresses agreement or displeasure. Absent that all we have is our words.

Hey all,
If I can interject some points from my perspective as a 21 year old Canadian. I've personally noted the lack of formality with people my age on every level. Personally, in a forum setting like this I'm less formal. However, if I'm sending a personal message, email or anything I always address the person and end the message with a Cheers, or thanks, etc. depending on what it is I'm sending. It's just common courtesy and politeness.
Way I see it, the way you present yourself is incredibly important. Offline and online, I always try to be as courteous as possible, since that's how I'd like to be treated. I also dislike the informal nature of clothing nowadays. Shirts with sweat words and ridiculous sayings I dislike, but that's the norm now I guess. Personally, I rarely go out in public with just a T shirt, i always have a button up shirt on. Of course I dont think people have to do that or act formally in every interaction, but that's how I choose to dress and act, I often get comments at work and other places that people don't realize I'm as young as I am. I've been called an "old soul" by a number of people. Guess that's a good thing, who knows, hah.

Just my thoughts on this.
Cheers.

buzz456 wrote:The thing to remember for all of us is before you push the submit button to think of what the person on the other end is going to think you are saying not necessarily what your words are meaning. Most all of us work darn hard at what we make or know or do or have experienced and the worst anyone can do is talk down to people.

Absolutely agree Buzz. Unfortunately, I have seen it here in forum posts where the message comes across as rude and condescending... whether the writer meant to or not. I'm just glad it is the exception, and not the norm. We have a great community here, and I am darn proud to be a part of it.

Some very thoughtful posts here.

DrewG wrote:Way I see it, the way you present yourself is incredibly important.

I couldn't agree more. And I doubt many of those who use "chat speak" when addressing strangers over the internet differentiate much whether they're addressing some bloke modeling train sim stuff, or a professor at school, a landlord or whoever. Do they even know how much they potentially hurt their own prospects? (OK, that's a rather rhethorical question.)
And on a personal side note, I'm very happy that t-shirts have become accepted everyday "fashion". They're just so much more comfortable! (And yes, I'm aware that there's a small parallel with those one-liner messages here. )

cnwfan wrote:We have a great community here, and I am darn proud to be a part of it.

Very well said!

Cheers!
Michael