Railworks America

How you professionals on here feel about this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amtrak-engi ... 015-crash/

Personally Im glad he was finally arrested. I remember shortly after the accident being infuriated that they weren't going to levy charges against him. He said he "couldn't remember why the train was going so fast." And "didn't know what speed his train was going."

I don't buy that for a second, you can FEEL how fast your train is going. 50mph is a hell of alot different than 100mph. And if you cant remember why your train is going that fast, you shouldn't be running. He reported being disoriented before the crash. Stop the train and make the call to dispatch. We all have GCOR 1.1.1 carved into our heads.

I get it, we all have bad days out there, Ill admit Ive made mistakes too. But it should never be so bad as to jeopardize the life of passengers or crew.

I agree with it. It's a shame but if he was that lost at his surroundings he shouldn't have been qualified yet. I ran trains through that same curve at all different times of day and night and there is no way after taking your check ride and being qualified how you miss that curve or let alone where you are out there. That area is so dangerous that your drilled until you know exactly where you are cause I can guarantee you're going to have to get the police out there at least once. Plus, there is signs in the catenary wires warning of the speed change ahead. no excuse except for not paying attention or poor training. If something dangerous comes on my radio my throttle goes to idle and the radio gets turned up.

It wasn't Brandon's fault for the accident, he wasn't on drugs nor was on his phone. It's messed up, how do you charge someone who did not break the law. He was distracted by radio communications and had no idea where he was since it was dark out at the time. It's not Brandon's fault completely, Amtrak played a role too for failing to add more safety features. That means he doesn't deserve to be arrested and hopefully the charges are dropped because there is no sufficient evidence that he acted in a criminal way/intending to be stupid while driving the train. Yes, I'm aware he was speeding but he should have known better but don't put all the blame on him and throw him behind bars. So do me a favor and double think on this is this if you think it's a criminal act.

PennCentral670 wrote: It wasn't Brandon's fault for the accident, he wasn't on drugs nor was on his phone. It's messed up, how do you charge someone who did not break the law. He was distracted by radio communications and had no idea where he was since it was dark out at the time. It's not Brandon's fault completely, Amtrak played a role too for failing to add more safety features. That means he doesn't deserve to be arrested and hopefully the charges are dropped because there is no sufficient evidence that he acted in a criminal way/intending to be stupid while driving the train. Yes, I'm aware he was speeding but he should have known better but don't put all the blame on him and throw him behind bars. So do me a favor and double think on this is this if you think it's a criminal act.

You cant use "being distracted by radio communication" as an excuse. Whenever Im out on the rails its a 9hour day and just on our channel alone we have operations, customer service, and the engine talking to MoW when they are out. I have to be able to listen to everything thats going on to know what is relevent to me and my task and still be able to do my job at the same time. If I don't understand whats going on, I either ask for clarification or tell the engineer to stop. GCOR 2.6

And you can't use "it was dark" as an excuse either. Like JohnS stated, you don't go out on your line solo until you know it like the back of your hand. It doesn't matter if its a high speed mainline with signals and speed indicators or a shortline like mine. Crews are required to know their territory and the specific rules and regulations to that territory.

You're right it isn't a "criminal act" it's negligence, but once people get killed for not doing your job correctly, you're at fault.

"you don't go out on your line solo until you know it like the back of your hand"
You must not work for a Class 1.

"I'm not qualified and I need a pilot"
which is usually followed by
"No pilots available, it says you're qualified on the computer."

BNSFdude wrote:"I'm not qualified and I need a pilot"
which is usually followed by
"No pilots available, it says you're qualified on the computer."

If I could count the times! Preach!

CArailroader wrote:He said he "couldn't remember why the train was going so fast." And "didn't know what speed his train was going.".

Don't forget brother, its not uncommon for pilots, railroaders, or automobile/truck drivers to forget what happened right before or leading up to an accident, because they suffered a brain injury. I won't deny it is alittle convenient, from the perspective of a lawyer; personally I've been blown up by IED's 6 times and remember every single one...minus the passage of time and getting old.

PennCentral670 wrote:It's not Brandon's fault completely, Amtrak played a role too for failing to add more safety features.

This is true too. Like most things, there is usually more then one thing that added up to culminate in the accident occurring. The blame rests with both him and the company, yet he will likely take the fall. Like CArailroader said, he is the end user and he had the power to stop the move. That said, at 100mph things happen pretty quick, and having to answer why you dumped the train, 'because you felt unsafe' can often end just as poorly for the crew. That, 'will I get fired if I do this' thought process may work in an office, but not at 100 mph. As we used to say in the Army, 'its better to make a decision, then no decision at all'.

As a railroader, you walk a very tight rope between job security and safety. Its been like that since railroading began, and while it should change, it likely won't anytime soon. This is one reason why, as Buzz so astutely observed in a previous thread:

buzz456 wrote:Railroad people seem to have a culture of animus toward management. Interesting.

Take care folks!

All this proves again is that passenger trains, which by the way are the problem in every big spill that results in more regulation, should not be running without a second opinion in the cab.

It was the problem in the Metrolink head on, it was the problem in Lac Megantic, and it was the problem here.

You need two people in the cab.

BNSFdude wrote:You need two people in the cab.

Also, VERY true!

CArailroader wrote:You cant use "being distracted by radio communication" as an excuse. Whenever Im out on the rails its a 9hour day and just on our channel alone we have operations, customer service, and the engine talking to MoW when they are out. I have to be able to listen to everything thats going on to know what is relevent to me and my task and still be able to do my job at the same time. If I don't understand whats going on, I either ask for clarification or tell the engineer to stop. GCOR 2.6

And you can't use "it was dark" as an excuse either. Like JohnS stated, you don't go out on your line solo until you know it like the back of your hand. It doesn't matter if its a high speed mainline with signals and speed indicators or a shortline like mine. Crews are required to know their territory and the specific rules and regulations to that territory.

You're right it isn't a "criminal act" it's negligence, but once people get killed for not doing your job correctly, you're at fault.

You are correct. I've worked for NJT and I've been on shortlines. They are all the same, location, location, location! Most of them if not all of them want you to qualify at night because it's totally different from day time. Multitasking was a big part training.

GERUNIMO625 wrote:

BNSFdude wrote:You need two people in the cab.

Also, VERY true!

Preach it brothers

Thank you all for your honest and insightful opinions. It was especially interesting to me that there seems to be no "circle the wagons boys" attitude, in the sense that "one of our own is about to be hung out to dry."

This is a rare situation. It's not often that a municipal court judge will "force" a prosecution against the will - or lack of will - of a district attorney's office. And then for the D.A.'s office to punt the judge's ruling to the state Attorney General. So "it ain't over 'til its over" yet.

Just FYI, here is some interesting public information regarding what the Philly D.A. himself is currently dealing with: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/DA-Se ... lphia.html

BNSFdude wrote:All this proves again is that passenger trains, which by the way are the problem in every big spill that results in more regulation, should not be running without a second opinion in the cab.

It was the problem in the Metrolink head on, it was the problem in Lac Megantic, and it was the problem here.

You need two people in the cab.

I agree and a train like at Lac-Mégantic shouldn't be left on a grade with no crew attending. I don't care how many brakes are applied.
There are kids that know enough to release hand brakes etc and cause a problem.
I remember one of my friends as a kid, releasing the brakes on a cut of cars in the Hunt' s cannery yard in Hayward years ago. The cars didn't go anywhere, but the little dork could've caused some real havoc.
A couple of my friends somehow knew how to release handbrakes and even the air, using the triple valve. I have no idea how they found out how to do these things, although crew were maybe too friendly in answering questions. ( this was before you could learn stuff from the interweb )

Ericmopar wrote:

BNSFdude wrote:All this proves again is that passenger trains, which by the way are the problem in every big spill that results in more regulation, should not be running without a second opinion in the cab.

It was the problem in the Metrolink head on, it was the problem in Lac Megantic, and it was the problem here.

You need two people in the cab.

I agree and a train like at Lac-Mégantic shouldn't be left on a grade with no crew attending. I don't care how many brakes are applied.
There are kids that know enough to release hand brakes etc and cause a problem.
I remember one of my friends as a kid, releasing the brakes on a cut of cars in the Hunt' s cannery yard in Hayward years ago. The cars didn't go anywhere, but the little dork could've caused some real havoc.
A couple of my friends somehow knew how to release handbrakes and even the air, using the triple valve. I have no idea how they found out how to do these things, although crew were maybe too friendly in answering questions. ( this was before you could learn stuff from the interweb )

I also agree with two folks always in the cab. California is one of the few states that passed a law that any freight train moving in the state requires two in the cab. I think itll be awhile before they require two in the cab on passenger trains.

And I don't know about Class 1s or any other railroad for that matter, but any time we leave a cut of cars, we roll the last car on a chock on the downhill side of the grade no matter how slight it may be before we set them out. That way on the chance John Q Public climbs all over it and releases all the handbrakes, they arent rolling, but we also dont have steep grades either except into the old lumber mill we used to serve.

Just a simple derail would have saved lives in Lac Megantic.