Railroad shut down looms

[buzz456]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey ... lyzed.aspx

[ErikGorbiHamilton]

Oh crap! This worries me so much! I hope the Seattle area doesn't get hit.

[dejoh]

The railroads simply need more time to get this very complicated system working correctly.
I see an extension to a year or more on the completion of this signaling.

[JohnTrainHead]

[CSX2057]

[buzz456]

!!bang!!

What are you trying to say?

[JerryC]

Well thats just great. The last time the railroads actually shut down, due to a strike, I had a Kato SD40-2 stuck in a UPS trailer on the back of a flatcar in Nevada. The Prez stepped in and ordered everyone back to work, which is what I think will happen if the PTC deadline is not extended and the rail companies try to shut down because they can't comply. Railroads affect almost every facet of the economy, and allowing a shutdown to go on for long would cause economic harm and political fallout too close to an election year.

Sleep well children, you are in the gubmennts hands!

[BillS]

Sleep well children, you are in the gubmennts hands![/quote]

Thanks Jerry, that makes me feel much better.

[buzz456]

You are right. This would be more akin to a lockout in which case he would love to intervene. Let's see now, he could force them to re-open and then fine them for not being in compliance. Yeah that sounds like a scenario I could believe in.

[CrimsonKing]

You are right. This would be more akin to a lockout in which case he would love to intervene. Let's see now, he could force them to re-open and then fine them for not being in compliance. Yeah that sounds like a scenario I could believe in.

I think you've got it a little mixed up there. POTUS would intervene and issue an executive order extending the deadline. Congress would then challenge the legality of such an order, fine the railroads for 1. shutting down in compliance with the law and then 2. for operating out of compliance because of the executive order that extends the deadline.

---
Seriously though, how is this not at least partially the government's fault? The FCC not allowing the necessary towers and antennas to be raised for more than a year should automatically extend the deadline by that same amount of time.

[Ericmopar]

Classic case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

As far as I'm concerned PTC is a boondoggle, since human beings will find infinite numbers of ways to bypass and screw up.
You wait and see, they will "discover" in about 20 years, the PTC itself is causing accidents do to human error in programming or interrupted signalling, hacking etc.
They've already proven it can be hacked, making it a danger, and target for terrorists.

[StrategyFirst]

This is terrible! They are right, people don't know just how much railroads affect economy. And since BNSF runs across the whole country, this is more trouble than most people think.

[JerryC]

Agree with Eric Mopar. Strong hull and water-tight bulk heads made the Titanic unsinkable. Nuclear weapons made war obsolete. Robotics would bring utopia and do away with the need for work. Just the simple fact that "people in the know" are touting this as the way to drastically reduce or elimate accidents is it's guarantee for failure. Substitute "further reduction in the labor force" for "safety", and you have the real reason for the push for PTC.

[Ericmopar]

Agree with Eric Mopar. Strong hull and water-tight bulk heads made the Titanic unsinkable. Nuclear weapons made war obsolete. Robotics would bring utopia and do away with the need for work. Just the simple fact that "people in the know" are touting this as the way to drastically reduce or elimate accidents is it's guarantee for failure. Substitute "further reduction in the labor force" for "safety", and you have the real reason for the push for PTC.

Yes, which brings up another point.
I do believe in Australia they implemented a type of PTC in the Pilbara, then they started to totally automate the iron ore trains very shortly after, getting rid of the crew.
Guess who's rail equipment they predominantly use for Pilbara region unit trains? Guess how easy it would be to take that next step, since the engines in OZ are ours, and the PTC train tracking equipment would already be installed in our Class 1 engines.

[jmslakings]

Agree with Eric Mopar. Strong hull and water-tight bulk heads made the Titanic unsinkable. Nuclear weapons made war obsolete. Robotics would bring utopia and do away with the need for work. Just the simple fact that "people in the know" are touting this as the way to drastically reduce or elimate accidents is it's guarantee for failure. Substitute "further reduction in the labor force" for "safety", and you have the real reason for the push for PTC.

Yes, which brings up another point.
I do believe in Australia they implemented a type of PTC in the Pilbara, then they started to totally automate the iron ore trains very shortly after, getting rid of the crew.
Guess who's rail equipment they predominantly use for Pilbara region unit trains? Guess how easy it would be to take that next step, since the engines in OZ are ours, and the PTC train tracking equipment would already be installed in our Class 1 engines.

Another good point Eric. Just this year Matt Rose(BNSF) tried to convince congress that Conductors are no longer needed on his trains. The same week one of his own tank trains derailed. This from the same guy who can't get his equipment up to date by the end of the year. Not because he doesn't have time, but because he doesn't want to spend money.