Tragedy on the NEC

[harryadkins]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/us/am ... html?_r=0#

[buzz456]

I know this is early but what am I missing here. I thought these new locomotives automatically applied the brakes if you were speeding into a reduced speed zone. No?

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

From the NYT article:
"The speed limit on that curve is 50 miles an hour, according to the Federal Railroad Administration, and on either side of the curve it is 70 m.p.h. That area, in the Port Richmond section of the city, does not have a safety system called Positive Train Control that can, among other features, automatically reduce the speed of a train that is going too fast."

No PTC, but what about ATS/ATC?

[drivertime61]

As a point of interest, an eerily similar ghost from the past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_Frank ... rain_wreck.

[OlPaint]

Can we blame this tragic accident on our crumbling infrastructure? And Congress failure to pass a transportation bill? The day following the crash, the House Appropriations Committee passed a measure to cut $260 million from Amtrak's fiscal 2015 budget, down to $1.1 billion. Democrats had requested the budget be increased by $1 billion to $2.4 billion. Some Republicans criticized Democrats for linking the budget to the crash during the budget discussions.

We could put lots of folks back to work repairing and replacing our aging transportation network that our industry depends upon.

OlPaint

[buzz456]

Or we could auction off Amtrak to someone who might run it for profit and make Congress stop tinkering with a lot of stuff that makes it unprofitable. If you can name anything government does right speak up. The facts are that it appears that once again like most aircraft accidents the human factor failed.

[Rich_S]

From the NYT article:
"The speed limit on that curve is 50 miles an hour, according to the Federal Railroad Administration, and on either side of the curve it is 70 m.p.h. That area, in the Port Richmond section of the city, does not have a safety system called Positive Train Control that can, among other features, automatically reduce the speed of a train that is going too fast."

No PTC, but what about ATS/ATC?

PTC does not have to be turned on until December of this year and that might not happen either. Several railroads are asking congress for an extension for PTC. When congress passed the law for PTC, none of the equipment existed when the bill was signed into law. Over the past 7 years companies like New York Air Brake and Wabtec have been creating PTC equipment from scratch. The railroads have also spent hundreds of thousands of man hours installing and testing PTC equipment only to find issues that needed to be updated. Currently BNSF and UP are running into all types of issues just trying to plant cell towers required by PTC. So to blame Amtrak for not having PTC installed on a section of Right of Way that is not even yet required is a little short sighted.

Personally I'd like to know all of the facts before pointing a finger, the event recorder (the so called little black box that is actually orange) records more than just speed. What was the throttle setting? Was it power or dynamic? What was the brake pipe pressure? What was the Brake cylinder pressure? What was the wheel and flange report from the last RM? When was the last time a track geometry car was run over this section of track? They said the track was inspected before the derailment, but was this just a visual inspection or a detailed geometry inspection?

[buzz456]

Good post.

[JohnTrainHead]

You know, I've managed to crash on that same curve several times in RW.

[thebigroyboyski]

The BBC over here is reporting that the train was doing 106mph before the brakes were applied and came off the rails at 102mph.

[Rich_S]

The BBC over here is reporting that the train was doing 106mph before the brakes were applied and came off the rails at 102mph.

According to recent NTSB reports, the event recorder indicated the above mentioned speeds just before the device stopped recording. The engineer (train driver on your side of the pond) has already posted a statement indicating he does not remember any details of the accident. He has already submitted a blood sample and surrendered his cell phone. Now the question is, did he have some type of seizure? Another question that is still unanswered, something was fired at a SEPTA train just 4 minutes before this accident, was something done to disorientate the engineer of this train, causing an accident?

[CARex]

You know, I've managed to crash on that same curve several times in RW.

I did as well @ 107 MPH. Amazingly the sim wreck looked exactly like the Ariel photos of the accident scene on the news

However, I had to disable the alerter on the ACS-64 (with 6 cars in tow... as reported on the DC area news). Otherwise the sim was stopping and penalizing me at every opportunity.

[buzz456]

There is a very good reason there are two people in the cockpit of our commercial aircraft in spite of some idiots suggesting we should do otherwise. Perhaps someone will have the sense to re-think this one man operation here.

[Rich_S]

There is a very good reason there are two people in the cockpit of our commercial aircraft in spite of some idiots suggesting we should do otherwise. Perhaps someone will have the sense to re-think this one man operation here.

Buzz, I wish you were correct, but I have the feeling they are going to push even harder now for no extension for PTC and require inward facing cameras. Not to get too far off topic, but look at what is happening in the trucking industry. Both Benz and Freightliner are working on trucks that will drive themselves. If people are not perfect 100% of the time, they will be replaced. Instead of adding another person for safety, they'll spend millions on a computer system to replace that second person. OK, climbing down off my soap box now.

[buzz456]

There is a very good reason there are two people in the cockpit of our commercial aircraft in spite of some idiots suggesting we should do otherwise. Perhaps someone will have the sense to re-think this one man operation here.

Buzz, I wish you were correct, but I have the feeling they are going to push even harder now for no extension for PTC and require inward facing cameras. Not to get too far off topic, but look at what is happening in the trucking industry. Both Benz and Freightliner are working on trucks that will drive themselves. If people are not perfect 100% of the time, they will be replaced. Instead of adding another person for safety, they'll spend millions on a computer system to replace that second person. OK, climbing down off my soap box now.

Inward looking cameras, yeah that's the ticket. It's so after the crash we will know what was going on. These people all have their collective heads up their you know what. I can't begin to tell you how annoyed I am about having the sky filled with drones buzzing around in the same sky with me soon. It's obvious from what I have been reading that there are huge problems with PTC. Has anyone thought about a simple GPS with a autopilot much like the one in airplanes? They seem to work pretty well with human supervision.