Railworks America

I was reading the newest issue of Trains Magazine last night. I saw a article about EMD and naturally i read it. When i finished i had to RE-READ the article just to make sure. According to Trains Magazine EMD, owned by Progress Rail and Caterpillar, will cease building locomotives for the U.S Market effective January 1, 2015. This is truly a end to a era which has lasted since EMD (Then EMC) built it's first locomotive, S/N 516 & 517.





Thank you EMD for all the times.


Thank you for a Wonderful 92 Years (Counting pre EMD years as EMC and EMEC and even Winton).

Well, they sure served the railroads well. For building big power, looks like GE is on their own for now.

Wow that's not good in more ways than one.
It will essentially make GE transportation a U.S. railroad monopoly.

That is also sad. How did a company that had a huge and clear lead on everyone else in the Diesel Electric field, get so far behind over the years?

Ericmopar wrote:Wow that's not good in more ways than one.
It will essentially make GE transportation a U.S. railroad monopoly.

That is also sad. How did a company that had a huge and clear lead on everyone else in the Diesel Electric field, get so far behind over the years?

They were catching up and infact doing well.


Then they discovered that the 710 the have in production can not be modified to have the EPA/U.S Tier 4 requirements. EMD will still produce locomotives for other country's but not the U.S

BNOV2 wrote:

Ericmopar wrote:Wow that's not good in more ways than one.
It will essentially make GE transportation a U.S. railroad monopoly.

That is also sad. How did a company that had a huge and clear lead on everyone else in the Diesel Electric field, get so far behind over the years?

They were catching up and infact doing well.


Then they discovered that the 710 the have in production can not be modified to have the EPA/U.S Tier 4 requirements. EMD will still produce locomotives for other country's but not the U.S

Wonder if this means they will still build locomotives for the Canadian market? I haven't read the article yet so I don't know how to make a proper opinion on it yet.

thecanadianrail wrote:

BNOV2 wrote:

Ericmopar wrote:Wow that's not good in more ways than one.
It will essentially make GE transportation a U.S. railroad monopoly.

That is also sad. How did a company that had a huge and clear lead on everyone else in the Diesel Electric field, get so far behind over the years?

They were catching up and infact doing well.


Then they discovered that the 710 the have in production can not be modified to have the EPA/U.S Tier 4 requirements. EMD will still produce locomotives for other country's but not the U.S

Wonder if this means they will still build locomotives for the Canadian market? I haven't read the article yet so I don't know how to make a proper opinion on it yet.

If Canada has EPA Tier 4 emission laws then EMD will not produce a locomotive for Canada

EMD has not been keeping up with GE on anything since the SD70MAC. The 70MAC was the last good EMD product made.

BNSFdude wrote:EMD has not been keeping up with GE on anything since the SD70MAC. The 70MAC was the last good EMD product made.

The SD70M was good to. UP has at least what, 1,000-2,000 Models? The ACe does decent once you get over the annoying spring issues with the trucks. I don't know what to say about the SD75.

BNOV2 wrote:

BNSFdude wrote:EMD has not been keeping up with GE on anything since the SD70MAC. The 70MAC was the last good EMD product made.

The SD70M was good to. UP has at least what, 1,000-2,000 Models? The ACe does decent once you get over the annoying spring issues with the trucks. I don't know what to say about the SD75.

70M? I wouldn't know. I don't run UP stuff often. ACe does nothing well. It can't pump air worth a dern, the isolated cab is a joke (may as well ride a bull), and they are still loud.

BNOV2 wrote:If Canada has EPA Tier 4 emission laws then EMD will not produce a locomotive for Canada

Our emissions laws are similar to the US, but not exactly the same. I sell industrial equipment, and we have no restrictions on selling Tier III equipment in my province. The only problem is supply, since most manufacturers build for the US market, and once their existing Tier III equipment is sold, they aren't building any more.

If true, I'm truly devastated.

I searched the net and found no references to this. Magazines have a lead time. So in the time since it was written, there should have been a mention of it somewhere. A trade magazine, business journal.... someplace else!

What I find strange is.... Caterpillar was putting a tier-4, 4700HP 4-stroke CAT engine in the new F125 passenger loco. If they can't get the 2-strokes to tier-4, why aren't they using the tier-4 CAT engine at least for the North American freight market?

Now we are gonna be pretty much a GE only country at some point. This sucks!

And think what this means for railroads in the USA.... higher prices for GE locos since there is really no decent competition to help drive the price down.

Wow... I'm just stunned right now.

GSkid wrote:If true, I'm truly devastated.

I searched the net and found no references to this. Magazines have a lead time. So in the time since it was written, there should have been a mention of it somewhere. A trade magazine, business journal.... someplace else!

What I find strange is.... Caterpillar was putting a tier-4, 4700HP 4-stroke CAT engine in the new F125 passenger loco. If they can't get the 2-strokes to tier-4, why aren't they using the tier-4 CAT engine at least for the North American freight market?

Now we are gonna be pretty much a GE only country at some point. This sucks!

And think what this means for railroads in the USA.... higher prices for GE locos since there is really no decent competition to help drive the price down.

Wow... I'm just stunned right now.

Yea what happened to that? I recall one of the magazine articles a few months back that they decided to quit the 2 stroke and drop in 4 stroke engines in the sd70's. Maybe that's what this article meant, has anyone else read it yet to figure it out?

If I can recall a friend of mine who works for a class 1 on locomotives told me that EMD was exiting the US market and that class one was buying up a bunch of older EMD SD locomotives for rebuilding. I think GE was looking into it as well.

GSkid wrote:... What I find strange is.... Caterpillar was putting a tier-4, 4700HP 4-stroke CAT engine in the new F125 passenger loco. If they can't get the 2-strokes to tier-4, why aren't they using the tier-4 CAT engine at least for the North American freight market? ...

I'd offer a caution that nobody jump to quick conclusions here. The U.S. market may be losing the last of EMD's legacy prime movers; but Cat's engineering department are a very aggressive bunch. If I were a bettin' man (which I'm not), I'd be bettin' heavily that the ex-EMD line comes back in some form with brand new prime movers, re-branded for North America and subsequently, for export. Were it not for what's been going on with the finance industry in recent years, I'd have expected them to be well on their way to this transition already.

Caterpillar's sluggish engine efforts are a setback. Pictured, workers in Indiana. James R. Hagerty/The Wall Street Journal

Caterpillar Inc. CAT +0.64% has fallen far behind General Electric Co. GE +0.35% in the race to offer a railroad locomotive that complies with stricter emission standards that take effect next year.

Caterpillar's Electro-Motive Diesel unit said its freight locomotives probably won't be available until 2017. Caterpillar said it is working to speed up its schedule and could have demonstration models available as early as next year but doesn't anticipate having production units ready until 2017.

GE is already testing locomotives that comply with diesel-engine exhaust regulations that take effect Jan. 1. The company has added a pollution-reduction system to its existing locomotive engine and expects full-scale production of emissions-compliant locomotives to start next summer. "We've got units operating so we can demonstrate performance," said Tina Donikowski, vice president for GE's locomotive business.

Caterpillar's sluggish engine efforts are a setback for a company that prides itself on building large, high-horsepower diesel engines for off-road vehicles and industrial uses.

The freight locomotive market is prone to sharp swings in demand. Sales in North America this year are likely to top $6 billion as railroads expand their fleets in response to congestion and new business, such as hauling crude oil. Railroads also are buying this year because emissions components will add 15% to 20% to a heavy-haul locomotive's price, which averages about $2.5 million.

GE has an estimated 60% to 70% of the U.S. locomotive market. Electro-Motive's two-year absence is expected to help GE solidify that lead, especially if GE's locomotive is a hit with the railroads, analysts said. Caterpillar is "definitely going to lose market share for the years that GE will have something ready to sell," said Lawrence De Maria, an analyst for William Blair & Co.

Caterpillar played down the significance of the gap, predicting that railroads will delay buying locomotives with the reconfigured engines. "History indicates that the railroads are slow to adopt new technology until it is fully proven in the field," a Caterpillar spokeswoman said.

U.S. freight locomotive production typically ranges from about 500 to 1,000 units a year. But orders this year have already reached about 1,300 locomotives, the highest volume since before the 2008 recession, said consultant Sean Graham-White.

Caterpillar will rely on overseas sales of Electro-Motive locomotives to sustain the business during its U.S. market absence. Overseas orders make up about 30% of Electro-Motive's overall annual sales, which last year reached $2.5 billion, according to analysts' estimates.

When Caterpillar acquired Electro-Motive four years ago for $820 million, the Peoria, Ill., company promised to deliver an "industry-leading range of locomotive, engine and emissions solutions." Electro-Motive was expected to benefit from Caterpillar's long experience in designing and manufacturing engines for bulldozers, mining trucks, ships and electricity generators.

Caterpillar said its own diesel engines are being used in passenger locomotives and smaller freight locomotives used for short hauls. North American railroads, though, so far have shown little interest in powering Electro-Motive's long-distance freight locomotives with Caterpillar's diesel engines, according to rail industry analysts. Instead, the railroads continue to prefer Electro-Motive's mainstay 1984 engine model, which has been updated repeatedly over the years.

"It's a simple engine that's ultrareliable," said Edward Biggs, president of rail-equipment consulting firm Biggs Appraisal Service in Marietta, Ga., "That's what the selling point of [Electro-Motive] has been for the last 50 years."

Despite its popularity, the engine can't be easily retrofitted to meet new federal requirements for reducing diesel soot particles and smog-causing emissions, forcing Caterpillar to come up with an alternative engine.

The uncertainty over Electro-Motive's ability to produce a compliant locomotive could entice other locomotive manufacturers to step into the void for a second freight locomotive brand to GE. Wabtec Corp.'s WAB +1.44% MotivePower division builds smaller locomotives for freight and passenger service. A recently formed passenger locomotive venture between Siemens AG SIE.XE +0.16% and engine-maker Cummins Inc. CMI +1.24% also could expand into the freight business.

Spokesmen for Siemens and Cummins declined to comment on whether the companies are interested in the freight locomotive market. A spokesman for MotivePower said it had no plans to expand its locomotive line for the long-distance, heavy-haul market.