Freight train lengths in the UK?

[GSkid]

What are the longest freight train lengths in the UK?

What are the average freight train lengths in the UK?

EXTRA question: What percent grades are the steepest for conventional trains in the UK?


I've been looking at vids and UK freight trains seem insanely short!

Also... I don't understand why this stationmaster has to keep opening and closing crossing gates manually. Is this a common practice across the UK? No automation?

[NSrailfan6130]

I posted a video called csx and couple nice horns and they were swapping loco's and someone in UK replied

The period between the road barrier lowering and the loco's crossing the road is very short indeed by UK standards. But then our loco's do not give such a loud warning to road traffic. We go not have bells on locos either. I like your system. Is it safe?

So i don't know why he did by hand must be that particular railroad

[mrennie]

I've been looking at vids and UK freight trains seem insanely short!

No, US freight trains are insanely long

[jp4712]

Most UK freight consists are governed by the length of the loops along the train's route - because the UK is so passenger-intensive, a freight train can be expected to be put in a loop several times along its journey to allow a passenger service to overtake. If you get the new WCML over Shap route you'll see this in action (and if UK rail interests you even slightly you SHOULD get it because it's excellent).

Loops can be anything from 250 meters to several miles, so of course the train length is dictated by the length of the shortest loop on the route. Almost all UK freight is nowadays 'block' trains, i.e. the whole consist is going from origin to destination, no breaking up and making up consists en route. So genuinely short freights, three or four cars, are now very rare indeed although you saw a few twenty years back.

In practice this tends to translate into a common maximum of about 24 cars of 75 feet in length. But this is a very rough estimate, and I guarantee you'll find YouTube evidence to the contrary because it's so route-specific. The number is also dictated by the fixed nature of those 'block' consists - for a container freight, many of the cars are semi-permanently coupled in groups of 4.

The manned grade crossing is very unusual - there are very few left, and presumably that's one reason why the guy was there with a camera. In fact Network Rail is abolishing all the grade crossings it can, and automating the rest - there was a news story here recently that in the last couple of years alone, 10% of all grade crossings in the UK have been abolished either by provision of a bridge or simply stopping up the access.

Paul

PS The steepest common-used grade in the UK is the Lickey Incline, 1 in 37 or a 2.7% grade but it's just three or four miles long. There are helpers kept at the bottom of teh incline to give a push to freights.

[GSkid]

Thanks Paul! Very detailed and helpful!

I didn't even know sidings were called "loops" in the UK. I find it odd that we share the same language and yet we differ on so many railroad terms. My best hypothesis is that Americans at the time were still angry at Britain over the American Revolutionary War despite us winning. I mean... I can understand a term or two being localized like other terms in the English language, but there is more than usual changed in railroading. Cuz why else would they change so many terms when railroads started in Britain in the first place?

As for train length? I like them long and very heavy... preferably creeping and straining up a steep grade with the engines screaming at full throttle. I would still enjoy railfanning in the UK, but short trains with few engines on them wouldn't be quite the same. I don't know the economics of freight trains in the UK, but short trains I'm guessing best fit the infrastructure that's more centered around passenger priority. America's larger and more diverse geography, coupled with far less passenger service are probably why our trains are much longer.

[jp4712]

Well, that need to fit in with all those passenger services tends to make UK freight runs at a reasonably high speed - 60 mph for coal etc, 75 mph for containers. So a couple of thousand tons in 20-odd cars may not seem like much, but at 75 mph that's more than enough momentum to keep you occupied...

Paul

PS we have sidings too - but for us, usually a siding is a dead end. A loop is an extra track that you go into off the main line, and come out of at the other end.

[GSkid]

You know, I was looking up spurs (branch lines) on wiki and came across something I've never heard of in Britain called "Beeching cuts".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeching_Axe

That's an incredible event! In the USA we've abandoned branch lines and still do. But we've never taken the axe to so many lines in such a short period of time as you guys. Financially, I fully understand and agree with the decision. On strictly an emotional level, it's sad. I love branch lines. They can tend to go to places that aren't the most accessible normally. That's why we have rail car clubs that take on our abandoned rail lines....

http://www.railspeeders.com/

I especially love abandoned rail lines where following them is an adventure with all the overgrowth and hazards.

[hertsbob]

Nothing is ever as simple as it first appears...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Marples

Random clip from the nearest main line station to me, which shows a bit of what Paul was referring to before about the freights fitting in with the passenger traffic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owgrPafPYKc

[mrennie]

Nothing is ever as simple as it first appears...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Marples

vested interests

[hertsbob]

Indeed...

With that said many lines are running at or above capacity and rather impressive standing at Watford Junction watching a constant stream of expresses coming through, all of which are only just running on green lights. There's no doubt there's more traffic nowadays - in certain areas - it weren't like that when I were a lad.

[GSkid]

I watched the video. What's the deal with the headlights? One side has both lamps on bright, the other has a single lamp on dimly. What purpose does that serve?

[jp4712]

It's all down to the different use of lights in the UK. All railroads are fenced off, so no need for strong headlights to pick out obstructions. The dim lights are markers just to show the presence of the train to track workers etc, and one headlamp whose function is not to illuminate the whole of the road ahead, but to pick out speed limit signs etc that have a reflective background.