Railroad shut down looms

[artimrj]

I thought we decided to leave politics and religion out of the forums? If we didn't, then I am doing it now. You want to talk about railroads policies fine, but leave the government and presidency out of it please. Stick to railroading.

[buzz456]

Bob,
I would agree that my comment about our dear leader was out of line however when we are discussing what might be a major disruption of rail traffic in this country that would be caused by the government or lack of action thereof I respectfully submit that this is a legitimate subject for conversation here.

[BNSFdude]

Don't get y'alls panties in a wad over something so stupid.
Investment wise, BNSF is the only railroad that has vested a considerable amount (10+billion) into PTC and the testing of such.
NS is too busy killing trains with AutoRouter and painting pretty heritage units that it had spent the least amount (1 billion) out of almost all of Class 1 carriers.

[GSkid]

I thought we decided to leave politics and religion out of the forums? If we didn't, then I am doing it now. You want to talk about railroads policies fine, but leave the government and presidency out of it please. Stick to railroading.

I agree with you Bob in general that politics should be avoided on the forum because of the potential and very emotional conflict it can cause. Which as a forum owner I fully understand you not wanting that atmosphere on here.

But I'll be fair to Buzz here and say this in his defense....

While some of his comments were over-the-top (which Buzz admits)... it was politics that created this problem for the railroads (in the form of a government mandate) and it's a political solution (in the form of delays and waivers) that can solve it. And as such... it's kinda hard not to discuss the subject AND not the politics of it .....because in reality this is a political problem at this point

That being said... your forum, your rules...... message heard and respectfully understood.

[buzz456]

WSJ today:
Congress spends much of its time sorting through crises created by past legislation, and this week will be no exception. Barreling down the tracks is a legal deadline for railroads that threatens to slam the economy if legislators don’t revisit one of their unwise mandates.

A month after a deadly train accident in 2008, Congress forced passenger and many freight railroads to install technology called positive train control, or PTC, by Dec. 31 of this year. The unwieldy $13 billion or more apparatus would prevent fewer than 5% of accidents, according to estimates.

Railroads haven’t met the mandate, and a September Government Accountability Office report detailed the “numerous interrelated challenges” the industry faced, especially the federal government. The Federal Railroad Administration took months to review safety and development plans. When the Federal Communications Commission heard that about 10,000 required transmission poles had popped up, the agency halted construction for a year and stalled permits.

The PTC technology, which is by now out of date, required designing, producing and installing more than 20 new parts, according to GAO, and only a few manufacturers could churn them out. One railroad’s equipment also may not be able to communicate with another’s. GAO guesses most everybody could comply within the next five years.

What happens if Congress doesn’t extend the date? Railroads could pay penalties, but no sane company would assume the legal risks of chugging along while knowingly out of compliance. Union Pacific, New York’s Metro Transportation Authority and dozens more have warned of service disruptions, which will wreak havoc well before the end of the year. Norfolk Southern Railway says it will stop accepting certain commodity shipments on Dec. 1. And if your commute is miserable now, wait until you can’t catch a train.

A one-month interruption would cost $30 billion and nearly 700,000 jobs, according to a report from the American Chemistry Council. Add to that 28,000 fewer homes built and 175,000 fewer cars sold, as the effects ripple across the supply chain. You’d need 600,000 trucks to haul the almost two billion tons in freight that travels by rail.

An extension should be an easy bipartisan fix, if not for Senator Barbara Boxer (D., Calif.). The Highway Trust Fund runs out of gas this week, so Congress must pass a temporary measure to buy more time. Legislators could tuck a PTC extension into the stopgap, but Conductor Boxer is derailing that idea so she can use it as leverage in negotiating a long-term highway agreement. Remember this the next time she is on the Senate floor railing about “public safety.”

Both chambers have rolled out language that would allow regulators to set benchmarks on implementing the technology, rather than a drop-dead date for compliance. Congress can pass this, and make partial amends for its previous mistakes, if Ms. Boxer gets off the tracks.

[Ericmopar]

Okay I looked that up.
Us Communists aren't opposed to an extension of the PTC deadline, we just want it watched to make sure the greedy capitalists don't use a blanket 5 year extension to skip out on installing it with lots of excuses.
Comrade Boxer and Comrade Feinstein simply want the extension to be put into place with regular progress reports.

Dasvidanya Comrades.

[plethaus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhY9Zxv1-oo

[Antwerp]

Crisis avoided, for now.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -extension

[plethaus]

Crisis avoided, for now.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -extension

Wait... you mean the sky didn't fall afterall?!

[JohnS]

Crisis avoided, for now.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -extension

Wait... you mean the sky didn't fall afterall?!

POTUS still needs to approve or veto the bill. Railroads are still planning on shutdown. POTUS has already stated he won't support an extension so we are still waiting in the industry. We are starting to store HAZMAT on our property.

[buzz456]

John if you read my post from earlier as long as Congress stays in session (and who knows nowadays what that means) for ten days if POTUS does nothing it becomes law.

[buzz456]

Latest update. Congress hung it on a extension of the highway bill so POTUS might just sign it since.............self censor.

[JohnS]

John if you read my post from earlier as long as Congress stays in session (and who knows nowadays what that means) for ten days if POTUS does nothing it becomes law.

I did read it. That's why the industry is still in limbo. We have to wait those 10 days to see what will happen.

Latest update. Congress hung it on a extension of the highway bill so POTUS might just sign

I had just read that too. I find it amazing that there still is congress persons fighting the fact that it was add to this bill. I just amazed how the government works vs how the forefathers had wanted it to work.

[GSkid]

I had just read that too. I find it amazing that there still is congress persons fighting the fact that it was add to this bill. I just amazed how the government works vs how the forefathers had wanted it to work.

This is exactly how the forefathers wanted it to work. They believed in limited government and to achieve this, they put a lot of checks and balances in place to make it harder for things to pass.... not easier.

It's why a president has the power to veto a bill to check the power of congress.... and in return, the congress has the power to check the president's power by requiring a two-thirds majority vote in both houses to override the president's veto.

It's why federal constitutional amendments are so hard to propose and send (rare) to the states....let alone get the ratification of it by three-fourths of the nation's state legislatures (even rarer).

When it's hard to get a bill passed that you like.....it can be very frustrating. But when it's a bill you don't like..... you can thank our forefathers for having the foresight and putting these checks and balances into our system of government.

I can't see how this won't eventually pass in some way. The disruption in commerce across the nation will have the legislators feet over the fire from business lobbyists and constituents affected.

[Ericmopar]

I had just read that too. I find it amazing that there still is congress persons fighting the fact that it was add to this bill. I just amazed how the government works vs how the forefathers had wanted it to work.

This is exactly how the forefathers wanted it to work. They believed in limited government and to achieve this, they put a lot of checks and balances in place to make it harder for things to pass.... not easier.

It's why a president has the power to veto a bill to check the power of congress.... and in return, the congress has the power to check the president's power by requiring a two-thirds majority vote in both houses to override the president's veto.

It's why federal constitutional amendments are so hard to propose and send (rare) to the states....let alone get the ratification of it by three-fourths of the nation's state legislatures (even rarer).

When it's hard to get a bill passed that you like.....it can be very frustrating. But when it's a bill you don't like..... you can thank our forefathers for having the foresight and putting these checks and balances into our system of government.

I can't see how this won't eventually pass in some way. The disruption in commerce across the nation will have the legislators feet over the fire from business lobbyists and constituents affected.

Exactly. That includes the Supreme Court as well.
That being said, it's amazing how much Bull they still manage to pass.