Tragedy on the NEC

[JohnTrainHead]

Wait a sec. Check this out; a friend of mine just posted this.

The NTSB and FBI are now investigating ACS-64 601's right and left windows. 601's right window has 4-6 tiny holes in it about the size of a bullet. the same goes for the left window. The engineer also reported before the crash that his train had been hit by several projectiles. The NTSB says he was very cooperative in the 90 minute interview. The engineer claims he felt fine and fully qualified to operate the locomotive. He was not sick but he did claim that the had no recollection or memory of what happened after Philadelphia 30th St. station. It is a factor and possibility that the engineer could have been knocked out by the projectile and slumped on the throttle. It may sound of of the question at first or far fetched, but they say it is a possibility and it is a bigger possibility than you think. The engineer has been identified as 32 year old Brandon Bostian. He has always been a railfan all his life and dreamed of being a conductor and engineer for Amtrak. He was once a conductor for Amtrak. We do not know for 100% whether it was a rock or a bullet yet. The FBI is still currently investigating the locomotive. The train will be rebuilt to test its braking system. This teaches you know matter what if you think it is funny to throw rocks and other objects at trains it isn't funny at all. You have to respect the train and keep everyone safe. Even if you think nothing will happen your wrong. The object could bounce back at you and hit you or it could break the window and hurt the engineer or train passengers. Keep the people in your thoughts and every single person who was on the train who have been traumatized by this derailment.

Link for 188 window: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... EsQMyglMCU
Link for Acela window: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... lphia.html
Link for Septa window: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... B4QMygAMAA

[jmslakings]

As the investigation continues I think we're going to find out that our buddy Brandon decided to go Wack'o Jack'o. Just to many things that don't make since.

[JerryC]

Of course, the defense and litigation lawyers are going to latch on to the possible "projectile hits train" theory in order to defend their client, Mr. Bostian. My problem with this theory is pretty obvious - if a projectile affected the Engineer and caused him to slump over the controls and speed up the train, where are his injuries? A bullet would definitely leave a mark, and I don't know of anyone who is tough enough to get knocked out by a rock and not have even a small injury. Thusfar, the media has not mentioned any injury, and neither has the engineer. So, IMHO, unless the projectile contained some sort of nerve or sleeping gas that was released into the cab upon impact and penetration of the wind shield, i'm not buying the story that some punk derailed an Amtrak train by standing trackside and hurling rocks to get his rocks off.

And as an asides but pertinent because of the similarity, we had two trains collide head on here back in 1990. The Engineer said the same - he did not remember anything until after the accident had happened. The subsequent investigation revealed he had undisclosed blood pressure issues, and the meds he was taking caused him to lapse into light sleep or pass out, hit the throttle, and inch out of the siding onto the mainline into the path of an oncoming train.

[jmslakings]

Of course, the defense and litigation lawyers are going to latch on to the possible "projectile hits train" theory in order to defend their client, Mr. Bostian. My problem with this theory is pretty obvious - if a projectile affected the Engineer and caused him to slump over the controls and speed up the train, where are his injuries? A bullet would definitely leave a mark, and I don't know of anyone who is tough enough to get knocked out by a rock and not have even a small injury. Thusfar, the media has not mentioned any injury, and neither has the engineer. So, IMHO, unless the projectile contained some sort of nerve or sleeping gas that was released into the cab upon impact and penetration of the wind shield, i'm not buying the story that some punk derailed an Amtrak train by standing trackside and hurling rocks to get his rocks off.

And as an asides but pertinent because of the similarity, we had two trains collide head on here back in 1990. The Engineer said the same - he did not remember anything until after the accident had happened. The subsequent investigation revealed he had undisclosed blood pressure issues, and the meds he was taking caused him to lapse into light sleep or pass out, hit the throttle, and inch out of the siding onto the mainline into the path of an oncoming train.

Yes. My thoughts exactly. If a rock or bullet had grazed him there would have been injury's and he would have officially been shot. End of investigation. As for the so called mysterious rock thrower. You're probably not going to find him unless he plays for the Yankees, and if he's not playing for the Yankees then he should be. Seriously, who walk's away from a fatal accident and decides its time to check Facebook.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I still don't know what safety systems are in use at that particular location. In our game, we have penalty brake applications on overspeed/failing to acknowlegde restricting signal or speed reduction.

Was the train past a control point or within alterter time-out? Is the loco capable of such accelleration with a throttle stuck at full forwards and unconscious engineer - after a proper speed reduction before the curve? Passenger testimonies surely must tell about this sudden accelleration?

[OlPaint]

My recollection of the press coverage is that the engineer was admitted to hospital with a scalp wound, a leg wound and a concussion. It was reported that the scalp wound required 14 staples to close. I do not recall what the leg wound dressing was required but the press did report injuries.

Also reported by NTSB the northbound ATC was disabled, the PTC was installed but awaiting the final approval for coming on line. And that there are no Speed Limit Boards located track side.

The engineer was required to memorize the route and speed limits to qualify with AmTrak for his operator position. He had been driving this part of the NEC route for only three weeks prior to the accident.

OlPaint

[drivertime61]

From the Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper. An interesting take on a train engineer's job and Engineer Bostian. Perhaps many of us fascinated by trains early on, but who chose other paths in life, can relate. Re a reference in the article, I wonder which train enthusiast forum Engineer Bostian participates in? Of course, anonymity is his best friend right now.

This was a page 1 feature story. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150 ... m_job.html

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

My recollection of the press coverage is that the engineer was admitted to hospital with a scalp wound, a leg wound and a concussion. It was reported that the scalp wound required 14 staples to close. I do not recall what the leg wound dressing was required but the press did report injuries.

Also reported by NTSB the northbound ATC was disabled, the PTC was installed but awaiting the final approval for coming on line. And that there are no Speed Limit Boards located track side.

The engineer was required to memorize the route and speed limits to qualify with AmTrak for his operator position. He had been driving this part of the NEC route for only three weeks prior to the accident.

OlPaint

So no operative safety systems and no lineside speed signs. Back to the "dark ages" of passenger train operations relying solely on engineers memorizing their time tables and route knowledge? Are paper or electronic timetables mandatory in the cab?
Do rules require a temporary second person in the cab when on a high speed line the ATC is out of order? Or are there temporary maximum speed reductions imposed and will the locomotive's maximum speed be "restricted" likewise?
Who knows engineers (and management) are relying too much on in-cab technology these days.

A sudden memory/concentration lapse, perhaps caused by a sudden shock/fright/panic attack because the locomotive was hit by a abnormal projectile? I gather Amtrak trains on the NEC are frequently hit by projectiles or run over rubbish thrown from overpasses. A few decades past, many locomotives had "ghetto grills" over their windshields. Being hit by a projectile will still scare the crap out of an engineer I think, grills or not.

[Ericmopar]

Did it ever occur to anybody, that the NEC runs through a lot of ghetto and they may not be able to repair speed signs often or fast enough?
I don't live in a ghetto, but the handful of ghetto assbites does more than a little damage in our neighborhood.

[OlPaint]

Here is a New York Times article about "Rock Throwing" by railroad property trespassers at passing trains.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/us/projectile-problem-goes-beyond-amtrak-train-and-philadelphia.html.
Even with modern bullet proof glass, getting a rock thrown at my wind shield at 75 MPH would rattle my focus and maybe stun my senses for a few moments.
OlPaint

[cActUsjUiCe]

I am willing to bet that kids were throwing rocks that night in the area. The train was going really fast and a large ballast rock thrown into a train going 100+ MPH will shatter things in my opinion.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

What ever became of the investigation? Has the engineer been cleared?

[JohnS]

What ever became of the investigation? Has the engineer been cleared?

Not to sure yet. The NTSB is still investigating from what I can tell. Seems they are hearing testimony's now. here is a link to the last update: http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases ... 50610.aspx
there is a link on that page to all the info collected so far.

[gtrtroger]

Kind of a postmortum on Amtrak 188 by the New York Times today.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/magaz ... .html?_r=0

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

Kind of a postmortum on Amtrak 188 by the New York Times today.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/magaz ... .html?_r=0

I am not a paid subscriber.

What was the final verdict?
What caused the accident?
Any lessons learned?