Quebec village destroyed by freight train explosion

[fecrails]

Am I the only one thinking this might have been caused by person or persons unknown?

It sure has to be considered. Who/what caused the locomotive fire in the first place and what events took place after the scene of that original fire was supposedly secured. If any type of vandalism or sabotage was involved, even if not directly causing the runaway train, that person/persons is totally responsible for the aftermath now.

[philmoberg]

... Here's a before/after shot of the city center. ...

That a shocking comparison on several levels. What's most stunning - to me, at least, having done some disaster planning - is the almost selective nature of the fireball and subsequent damage. It appears to have been quite specifically directional, almost as though it was a giant blowtorch. I'd have expected a broader damage pattern, given the nature of what was burning. Or is the camera angle throwing my perspective off?

Do you happen to know whether there is a Canadian equivalent to the NTSB, and if so, do they publish their final reports online? I've read a lot of accident reports in my time, and I would be really interested in reading this one.

[buzz456]

Transport Canada? I think.

[mapitts]

If the lead locomotive was in fact shut down & no handbrakes applied, even if there was a 5 or 10 pound set on the brakes as the train leaked air the equalizing reservoir would have released the brakes. To me the clue here is that the lead locomotive was on fire and shut down. If the brake hoses or other brake equipment were damaged just enough it would have allowed a leak not quite large enough to cause a rapid enough drop of air pressure to set the brakes into emergency. Remember that modern ABD's do not work like air brakes on a tractor trailer. Many times I have uncoupled a car, shot or dynamited the air, pulled the equalizing reservoir handle to release the brakes, let the car coast into a side track, and use the hand brake to stop it.

[1225fan5358]

What moron gives it a 5-10 pound setting with no handbrakes on a downhill grade and just leaves?! The railroad says the train was tied down before the engineer left. For it to move, somebody most likely screwed with it. These reports do not say "malfunction" to me. The engine fire doesn't happen unless there's something to burn. It is definately not turned off when there's a fire coming out of the top! When black smoke comes outta there, its a bad turbocharger. White smoke: unburned fuel. Old GEs are known for doing this. Why do you think NS and CSX crews call old CR GEs "blue poopy's"? This has now turned into a criminal investigation. I believe it should. Somebody screwed up or this was toyed with.

[mapitts]

What moron gives it a 5-10 pound setting with no handbrakes on a downhill grade and just leaves?! The railroad says the train was tied down before the engineer left. For it to move, somebody most likely screwed with it. These reports do not say "malfunction" to me. The engine fire doesn't happen unless there's something to burn. It is definately not turned off when there's a fire coming out of the top! When black smoke comes outta there, its a bad turbocharger. White smoke: unburned fuel. Old GEs are known for doing this. Why do you think NS and CSX crews call old CR GEs "blue poopy's"? This has now turned into a criminal investigation. I believe it should. Somebody screwed up or this was toyed with.

Dude, you need to ease up a little. Been around a while and know a few things, even about diesel engines and locomotives. Imagine that. Reckon they cranked her back up after the fire was put out?

[XDriver]

From Trains Magazine Facebook page.

THOMAS T FETTERS from ILLINOIS said:

These are the essential facts from Canada.
There were FIVE locomotives with #5017 as lead unit. There were 72 "wagons", tank cars, in the train. Engineer Thomas Harding stopped the train at Nantes at 11PM. He shut down four of the five locomotives, left the train on the Main track and set the normal air brake system and applied "several" handbrakes. He left the area ay 11:25 PM to go to the Nantes hotel.
Several residents have complain in the past over the practice of leaving a locomotive idling for long periods.

A fire was reported aboard #5017 at 11:50 PM, 25 minutes later. The Nantes fire department put out the fire and shut down the locomotive at Midnight. They called the dispatcher to report their action.

Early reports were that 27 or so tank cars became uncoupled and rolled free down grade at 12:56 AM to Lac Megantic. A camper reported hearing the cars move by, and observed no lights, but tank cars have no lights.

A woman at Lac Magantic heard the cars approaching and saw the lead car blazing which provided a source of ignition.

The cars derailed at 1:14AM. 18 minutes after rolling free.

Don Ross of the TSB (BST) reported looking at the brake positions and control positions on the locomotives. He did not mention their location as being at Nantes or at Lac Magantic.

Observations:

Were the locomotives part of the runaway, or did they remain at Nantes with the remainder of the 45 cars if the original consist?

Where was the fire located on the #5017? Who permitted the shutting down of the locomotive?

Tank Cars have special tight lock couplers to prevent dis-engagement in transit. Did these cars have the tight lock couplers?

How did the couplers at car 27 release? This requires manual operation, and no MM&A employees were present to carry this out.

If the locomotives were on the downhill end of the 27 runaway cars, where did they go as they do not appear to be at Lac Magantic?

If the locomotives were at the up hill end of the train, did they remain there?

Since the last tank car, still standing on the track, had a FRED )flashing rear end device) in place and flashing in some photos, did the entire 5 locomotive and 72 wagons go down grade?

If so, apparently the locomotives and several tank cars must have passed through Lac Magantic first followed by the remaining cars with the lead car ablaze, that then crashed.

What model and make were the locomotives?

All in all, the incident suggests some prankster at play with horrible results.

Tom Fetters

[fecrails]

The latest development via AP:

Quebec police Inspector Michel Forget said Tuesday that investigators have "discovered elements" that have led to a criminal probe. He gave no details but ruled out terrorism and said police are more likely exploring the possibility of criminal negligence.

[buzz456]

I love the cops nowadays....."ruled out terrorism" How the hell could he possibly know that at this point?

[FourEightFour]

I love the cops nowadays....."ruled out terrorism" How the hell could he possibly know that at this point?

Agreed.

I also have a question assuming the cars were cut from the consist leaving the locos and the rest of the consist in place: How is this possible with no slack in the couplers? The engines are on the uphill end, the train comes to a stop and all of the slack is pulled out. It is impossible to uncouple with no slack in the cars.

Just a shot in the dark, but standard practice is to tie handbrakes on the cars on the downhill end. Maybe the fire/sparks seen by eyewitnesses on the free rolling tankers kinda prove that there were handbrakes applied, and from what it looks like from the reports a sufficient amount were applied.

[fecrails]

I don't know what the Canadian laws are nor am I an expert in US law, but criminal negligence would most likely imply that an individual/individuals involved in the events leading up to the runaway train acted in a way that was a blatant violation of industry established standards and procedures that would reasonably be expected to result in property damage, injury, death, etc. The intent of their acts was not to directly cause the calamity that occurred, but their actions were taken knowing proper procedures were not being followed and there was a risk of an unpredictable outcome.

[arizonachris]

So much conflicting info and rumors about all of this, but something is just not right. FD blames MM&A for not having a conductor on scene to secure the train as soon as the FD released it. Agreed. MM&A should have had someone on scene.

Uncoupled cars? Vandalism quite possible as the town the train was parked in had complained about diesel engine noise several times before. Downhill? Uphill? Locomotives derailed 1.5 miles further down the track.

Now comes the twist. The Canadian Government has been pushing for a pipeline instead of the increased oil tanker traffic which could be dangerous. Yeah, we can see that now.

Theories abound and it's all just speculation even on our parts. Even the news has conflicting information. So the blame game will go on.

[Merlin75]

Some new news on this train crash. The company have suspended the driver saying he failed to set up the brakes properly. The driver is saying he set them up as per company policy. I do find it amazing that the company did not send anyone down to check on this train after they were told it had caught fire.

[1225fan5358]

What moron gives it a 5-10 pound setting with no handbrakes on a downhill grade and just leaves?! The railroad says the train was tied down before the engineer left. For it to move, somebody most likely screwed with it. These reports do not say "malfunction" to me. The engine fire doesn't happen unless there's something to burn. It is definately not turned off when there's a fire coming out of the top! When black smoke comes outta there, its a bad turbocharger. White smoke: unburned fuel. Old GEs are known for doing this. Why do you think NS and CSX crews call old CR GEs "blue poopy's"? This has now turned into a criminal investigation. I believe it should. Somebody screwed up or this was toyed with.

Dude, you need to ease up a little. Been around a while and know a few things, even about diesel engines and locomotives. Imagine that. Reckon they cranked her back up after the fire was put out?

Sorry bout that. I was informed that the train was moving when the fire happened. Gotta love the media! (not)

[arizonachris]

MM&A is now blaming the conductor who says he only set 11 hand brakes on the tank cars. Blame game goes on!