Railroad shut down looms

[Rich_S]

I've never understood this logic since the wreck happend.
Train brakes apply when line pressure is lost. As the line pressure got lower, the cylinders should have applied more brake.
Even if the engines were left running, the brake cylinders would have bled down from leaky seals.
Someone would have had to apply the engine brakes, then release and recharge the train brakes, then reapply the train brake, once the system is recharged.
Leaving the engines running wouldn't have held the brakes on their own.
The engineer (I don't believe there was a "Crew") walked off without setting enough hand brakes, period.

The fire crew did exactly what the railroad taught them to do, and if the trainman had set enough handbrakes, the thing wouldn't have rolled away.
End of Story.

Yes, as the brake pipe drops the triple valve on the car sends air from the air tank to the brake cylinder at 2.5 times the amount of the brake pipe drop, brakes apply. The brake pipe continues to drop and the triple valve continues to exhaust the air tanks on each cars until you have equalization at about 60 lbs of pressure. At that point now the engine is not running to maintain the system, everything continues to bleed off. At some point during the night everything bled off to the point there was not enough pressure in the brake cylinders to hold the train and down the hill it went. If you read my first post I agree, the engineer or crew did not apply any hand brakes. I do not know what first responders are taught or not taught, but I would hope if they are taught to shut the locomotive or locomotives down, that hopefully they are also taught to make sure the train is secure for safety? It was the crews responsibility, but people make mistakes for a host of reasons, one of them being fatigue. It never hurts to "double check".

[BNSFdude]

Bring on the shutdown. The following shitstorm will bring a lot of guys back from furlough.

[Rich_S]

I have a unique position on this whole PTC issue, I've installed PTC equipment on our locomotives. First problem, from day one, 7 years was not enough time to design, manufacture and install PTC. Not only do we need to installed PTC equipment on our locomotives, but we also have to upgrade the right of way. Every turnout, every signal, every mile of right of way has to be tired into the PTC computer system. It takes us on average one week to installed PTC on one locomotive. That translates into 2 people per shift, 3 shifts per day, seven days per week. We cannot throw more people at PTC installs, because of supply, NYAB can't produce PTC kits fast enough. Another issue is Cell towers have to be placed along the right of way so there are no dead spots and to feed all of this information from the locomotive to the main computer and back again and the FCC has thrown a wrench into this process several times. Now each site has to be approved and different groups can say no on a cell tower site for one reason or another. When we first started installing PTC equipment on our locomotives, we were receiving almost weekly software updates. In the first year, we went though several hardware updates. Starting last year we just went through another major hardware update, so all of the locomotives installs from 2009 to 2014, now need redone to be PTC compliant. The part I find very frustrating, the federal government back in 1968 gave the railroads 10 years to remove roof walks from rolling stock, but only gave us 7 years to design, manufacture and install a very complex computer system.

For those who think PTC will replace crews, this is not correct. When fully implemented, PTC will be aware of the location of all trains because of the GPS equipment installed on the locomotive, it will be aware of the wayside signals and turnout positions, it will be aware of all gradients and curvature of the right of way and all speed limits, so it's going to be more like a back seat driver. It will know if you have a stop signal and at what point you need to start breaking, if the engineer does not start reducing speed in time to stop at the stop signal, the PTC system will stop the train. Same applies for speed restrictions, turnouts not properly lined or if you are too close to another train in your block. It's a very sophisticated safety device that would have prevented the Amtrak accident in Philly.

Seriously, everyone needs to write their congress men or women and tell them to extend the PTC deadline. The railroads really have made a good faith effort to install PTC, which is a very complex computer system, but 7 years was not enough time. Also just to let everyone know, this has not been a last minute headline grabbing event with the railroads, some roads have been saying since day one that seven years was not long enough.

I can tell you NS is not threatening to shut down, but they have told their customers they will not operate in violation of the law. As the powers to be at NS read the law, Effective January 1, 2016 they will not be able to haul TIH, "Toxic Inhalation Hazard" which account for the majority of hazardous material loads. They will also have to stop allowing passenger trains on the NS rail network. Per the law, TIH loads and Passenger trains have to be PTC equipped. Even if Amtrak locomotives are PTC equipped, the NS right of ways are not PTC ready.

[dejoh]

Thanks for the clear explanation. John Q. Public should read this information.

[gtrtroger]

Another shot across the bow of Congress....

Breaking story out of Virginia says that Norfolk and Southern will not let AMTRAK use its rails after 31 Dec because they will not meet PTC deadline.

[buzz456]

There was also something in the blurb about how they would not accept any flammable or other dangerous cargo of any kind after December 31 if this deadline is not extended.

[buzz456]

NORFOLK, Va., Oct. 20, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Norfolk Southern Corporation (NYSE: NSC) today said its rail operating subsidiaries will no longer accept shipments of Poisonous-Inhalation-Hazard commodities, effective Dec. 1, 2015. PIH commodities in transit on Dec. 1 will be delivered to destination by Dec. 31. Additionally, passenger and commuter trains operated by Amtrak, Virginia Railway Express, and Metra will be prohibited by law from operating on NS after Dec. 31.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 63303.html

[JohnS]

From what I have gathered from work the "shut Down" is only pertaining to the shipment of placarded hazardous material and Passenger Rail operations. General freight will still move according to what I have read.

[buzz456]

http://thehill.com/policy/transportatio ... -extension

Now if we can get der Fuhrer to sign it the industry gets three more years.

[JohnS]

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/257566-agreement-reached-on-automated-train-extension

Now if we can get der Fuhrer to sign it the industry gets three more years.

He has already made a statement that he will not get involved. I will try to find the blurb.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-07/obama-won-t-support-extending-deadline-for-rail-safety-equipment
This is one of many

[buzz456]

I understand the way the law reads if he does nothing after either (I don't remember) 14 or 21 days it becomes law.

[JohnS]

I understand the way the law reads if he does nothing after either (I don't remember) 14 or 21 days it becomes law.

I don't know the answer. I just find the whole thing odd. It's a weird time line of events. Not just the railroad but it seems to be part of line of events that have been unfolding. I hope I'm just crazy but it seems the rail industry is another piece to a much larger puzzle.

[Ericmopar]

All this Chicken Little stuff.
The politicians spend so much time working hard to make this country run, and all you guys do is nit pick their work.
If people keep complaining, they won't be motivated to do a good job. Would you be under those circumstances?
How would you like it if people were complaining about your work all the time?

That all sounds very familiar...

[buzz456]

" Pass: If the President approves the bill he signs it and, usually, writes “approved” and the date, although the Constitution only requires his signature.
Veto: If the President does not approve the bill, he must return it to its Chamber of origin with his objections within 10 days.
Pocket Veto: If the President receives the bill and does not sign or return it to Congress with objections within 10 days—excluding Sundays—it becomes law as long as Congress remains in session. If Congress recesses before the 10 days have passed, the bill dies."

In simple English this means if this has passed both Houses and the President does nothing and Congress remains in session for ten days after passage then the bill becomes law.

[JohnS]

" Pass: If the President approves the bill he signs it and, usually, writes “approved” and the date, although the Constitution only requires his signature.
Veto: If the President does not approve the bill, he must return it to its Chamber of origin with his objections within 10 days.
Pocket Veto: If the President receives the bill and does not sign or return it to Congress with objections within 10 days—excluding Sundays—it becomes law as long as Congress remains in session. If Congress recesses before the 10 days have passed, the bill dies."

In simple English this means if this has passed both Houses and the President does nothing and Congress remains in session for ten days after passage then the bill becomes law.

ok cool I didn't realize that.