Caterpillar+Progress Rail = Middle Class Screwed Again

[buzz456]

Before this Thread gets shut down, all I want to say is I could really use a job, even at minimum, and I have a lot of aircraft skills, still can't find shiite out here. Let alone a RR job. Pacific Harbor Lines decided I was too old at 53. I could fight it but why bother.

You a AI or A&P?

[arizonachris]

You a AI or A&P?

Was close to finishing A&P school, even was on the Dean's list with a 3.8 grade average, was working full time and going to school full time, but then 9/11 came along and it all went haywire. West LA college moved it's campus and I hit hard financial times. But I still remember, every nut bolt and wire. I wanted to work on radial engines, I'm fascinated by them.

Oh, I do have an interview at Robinson Heli next week. They are right near me at Torrance Airport. That would be great! I see UP is hiring, but I'm not gonna commute 50 miles one way every day just for 4 months training.

[mapitts]

The US is slowly turning into service industry based economy. I am a 4th generation pipe / coded vessel welded in my family. I am very proud of job and a craftsman not just skilled trades. I am happy to see that some of you have the same view point as me when it comes to skilled trades and jobs in general. People are trying to make a decent living and there is absolutely nothing wrong with a person trying to provide for their families. When a large company strong arms employees to cut their wages and benefits in half it shows one thing and one thing only. You know what I am talking about. I work for a large global chemical company and have seen this way to often. I am trying to be civil while I am absolutely fuming inside about something like this.

[Hawk]

I am trying to be civil while I am absolutely fuming inside about something like this.

Thank you for keeping it civil.

I can't even post in this thread because I don't know of a way to keep my thoughts on this civil and unpolitical.

[dejoh]

Unfortunatly, automation has cut into many skilled jobs. In the steel mills, Arcelor Mittal (Inland Steel) they are making more product, with many less workers.
1980 32.000 workers. 2012 6.200. No more leaning on the broom for $25.00 an hour.

[hminky]

The US is slowly turning into service industry based economy.

America was promised a service economy starting in the '80's.

Harold

[mapitts]

Unfortunatly, automation has cut into many skilled jobs. In the steel mills, Arcelor Mittal (Inland Steel) they are making more product, with many less workers.
1980 32.000 workers. 2012 6.200. No more leaning on the broom for $25.00 an hour.

In 2009 the Company I work for had to come up with cost cutting measures because of the economic situation. Like I said in a post above, we are a large company that every house and person just about knows our name. You do not think about us being a chemical company as well. It was to affect every division (7) globally. As a member of maintenance ( I am a pipe /vessel welder) and a team, we came up with rather innovative ways to repair things we where replacing at anywhere from $7500-$13000 a pop. Just one instance of what we were trying hard to do in order to cut costs and save money. They froze hiring and liked to have worked us to death. We received no raise that year, not even so much as a thank you. We did make money, no one got laid off, and we kept our jobs. I will say that. Our CEO got a $27,000,000 bonus for his cost cutting program that we put together, implemented, and still do to this day. $27,000,000.00. Plus a 6.75% raise. I am thankful to have my job, but that was ridiculous. Hawk if I am stepping over the line let me know. It is just so hard to set back and say nothing.

[buzz456]

In 2009 the Company I work for had to come up with cost cutting measures because of the economic situation. Like I said in a post above, we are a large company that every house and person just about knows our name. You do not think about us being a chemical company as well. It was to affect every division (7) globally. As a member of maintenance ( I am a pipe /vessel welder) and a team, we came up with rather innovative ways to repair things we where replacing at anywhere from $7500-$13000 a pop. Just one instance of what we were trying hard to do in order to cut costs and save money. They froze hiring and liked to have worked us to death. We received no raise that year, not even so much as a thank you. We did make money, no one got laid off, and we kept our jobs. I will say that. Our CEO got a $27,000,000 bonus for his cost cutting program that we put together, implemented, and still do to this day. $27,000,000.00. Plus a 6.75% raise. I am thankful to have my job, but that was ridiculous. Hawk if I am stepping over the line let me know. It is just so hard to set back and say nothing.

What percentage of the companies revenue was the twenty seven mil? Not that I think anyone is worth that much.

[mapitts]

I am going to stick with my promise to Hawk on keeping this civil. If you want to know my opinion, PM me. We all have different opinions on this and I respect that. I also respect the fact that this is not my forum, and this may have run it's coarse. This should be a railroad oriented forum and nothing else. I promise I am not flaming you, and if it comes across as that I am sorry. My mouth will start to run and soon turn into a rant. I do not want to start that with any of you gentlemen. Thank you for your understanding.

[philmoberg]

FWIW, I'm not sure that Buy America policies apply in this case, primarily because of NAFTA. At this point, most of the rolling stock manufacturers are either NAFTA companies or have U.S. subsidiaries which are covered under Buy America. I'd also make the observation, having been in the middle of (read in the crossfire of) labor negotiations several times, that much of what is goes on these days is posturing, and can be quite histrionic because it makes for good theater on the evening news. We just got over such a situation, including a lockout, with the NBA, and it leaves me wondering what my great grandfather, who helped organize his local of the Brotherhood of Railway Trainmen, and who retired with sixty-two years in the railroad industry, would think of all this. I'd be curious to know what is actually going an behind the theatrics.

The biggest problems EMD has are legacies of its days as a a subsidiary of GM, these being the whole scope if its labor relations, and the one hand, and their approach to quality control and innovation on the other hand. These were based on the assumptions of planned obsolescence, cheap energy and perpetually growing demand. The consequences of this approach, and the corporation's failure to comprehend (much less to respond effectively to) the consequences of it have been well documented, beginning as early as the late-'60s with an early, notorious case study that identified a corporate culture of Not Invented Here (which later became the basis of the Python group's Knights who say NIH, by the way). Similar problems existed, to some extent, in all heavy industries. In order to avoid what they had witnessed in the railroad industry a generation earlier, investors began to divest themselves of these industries and their internal and external liabilities. Because of severe inflation and changes to the tax codes, most of this money was re-invested in low capital, high growth businesses, the bulk of which provided services of various sorts. It is now beginning to dawn on a growing number of investors, for a variety of good reasons (which I'll be happy to get into if there is any interest), that this economy would be more healthy if we made more of what we consumed.

I'd be curious to know what Progress has in mind for the Indiana plant. If it's strictly a final assembly operation, I wouldn't expect most of the wages to be better than industry-standard entry level for an new startup. I would be more interested to see where the wages go in the next few years, if the plant's order book grows and the operation turns out to be a good investment. For the time being, however, the local economy is bound to improve - these being jobs where there previously were none - and I have to wish them well.

Please don't think I'm attempting to minimize a bad situation: I started out in the mid-'70s, with the country's industrial base collapsing around me, 17-18% inflation and growth limited to the retail and food service sectors. It's a frustrating situation, but I see some underlying and unremarked trends more cause for optimism than I had then.

[Ghettofab75]

I have to wonder why they upgraded the muncie plant to build "american made" locomotives when they could have just used the La Grange plant? They used to build locomotives there, you'd think they'd still have the capacity to do it.

I have to say it is odd to hear of american workers working for less than their foreign counterparts. It took me awhile to figure out what was going on.

Kevo

[philmoberg]

IIRC GM tore down the original plant when they shut down production there. I seem to remember them offering to sell bricks from the building as souvenirs.

A check of the aerial photos on Google Earth indicates that the track has been completely lifted from one of the buildings, and at least one of the others, the one in the southeast corner, has found other uses, with only one of its tracks not being blocked. It appears there may be some test lab capability, with a few SD-70s, one of which is missing the center part of its hood, clustered around a smaller building. There are also ten SD-40-2s in the old yard. I'd be interested to know what they're paying for taxes in Chicagoland, and whether there are potentially expensive "brownfield" liabilities on the property.

Interestingly, the property appears to be surrounded by what are either quarries or gravel pits. These would seem to be more extensive that what might be expected for brownfield remediation.

[micaelcorleone]

I have to wonder why they upgraded the muncie plant to build "american made" locomotives when they could have just used the La Grange plant? They used to build locomotives there, you'd think they'd still have the capacity to do it.

Perhaps because La Grange has long been absorbed by Chicago. It's just another suburb now. More an area to live than for heavy industries.
Too expensive and limited space to produce in large qunatities there.

I have to say it is odd to hear of american workers working for less than their foreign counterparts. It took me awhile to figure out what was going on.

It's the same here in Germany. Decades ago, we had the highest average wages of all European countries. Consequent cost cutting, little pay increase, labor leasing, maceraton of dismissals protection laws and more things have made Germany a country with one of the lowest cost of labor in the EU. Our neighbours, especially France, recently complain about the wage dumping.

And that's a development that similarly affects all the high-wage countries of the western hemisphere. We are in competition with the former soviet countries and India and China.
More and more labor intensive industry shifts to these countries.

But guess what will happen:
The wages there will grow while the wage level here decreases. Someday, it will be cheaper for the global companies to produce here again and they'll come back. Everything tourns around and then back...
That's our globalized world with all its advantages and disadvantages.

[mapitts]

What percentage of the companies revenue was the twenty seven mil? Not that I think anyone is worth that much.

Not a large percentage at all. Maybe 1%. The cost of it was passed onto you as a consumer, me as an employee, and in money going to capital projects to improve effeciency and quality in several North American plants. One plant in MO was closed within our division. My COL raise is not the issue. The issue at hand is that the company I work for ( and I am a stock holder ) was suffering due to a global economic turn down. Cuts were made to help, vendors payment terms went from net 90 to net 120, stock fell like a rock out of the sky, prices where increased to the customer & many of us lost a significant amount in our company 401K's. To reward his self, Mr. CEO was handed a $27 million bonus, his yearly salary, a 6.75% raise, and a stock option package of some kind. I do not mind a person who is the head of a fortune 100 or fortune 50 company making money at all. That was a slap in the face of every person who was dealing with the "king" and his court.

[SMMDigital]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting today that Caterpillar is closing the London, Ontario plant. Mixed emotions on this one. It's good that American jobs will be created / preserved in the U.S. As a factory worker myself though, I feel for all of those guys in Canada who lost their jobs, and for those in Muncie who will be making just above minimum wage to make locomotives for a company that just reported a 58% profit in the 4th quarter.