Amtrak/CSX Collision in South Carolina

[NStrains]

There is a lot of guessing and opinion here but let's stick with the facts and then ask the logical questions. Fact appears to be the switch was set to the siding. Fact the section was under signal maintenance. Fact traffic was being controlled by dispatch. So it would seem to me to be who set the switch to the siding? It's unlikely it was the train crew unless they backed the train into the siding which I doubt. Why was the Amtrak train allowed to run with no speed restriction in a dark section? Is this normal?

One of the articles I read said the train had backed into the siding it was tied-down on. Seems to me really the only person to blame here is the person who was responsible for making sure that switch was lined correctly.

[buzz456]

That looks like a heck of a long train to have backed into that siding.

[NStrains]

Taken from the 3rd post in this thread...

"According to Sumwalt and other sources, the CSX train had unloaded vehicles at the Total Distribution Services Inc. trans-load facility in Dixiana, S.C., on the east side of the main line. TDSI is a CSX subsidiary. The train then moved north on the main, and backed into a siding on the west side of the main, where it tied up."

[lj0109]

That looks like a heck of a long train to have backed into that siding.

That maneuver is common at that location and I see it playing out on a daily basis. The train was originally Q211 as it arrived into Cayce. F777-03 ("Ramp Job") took over the Q211 at Cayce Yard and headed south with the train of loaded autoracks down to Silica. At Silica, F777 ran around its train in order to work TDSI, which can only be spotted in a NB direction. After spotting the loads and pulling the empties, F777 pulled high of the "Silica Switch" at milepost S367.0 and shoved back in order to clear up and tie the train down to go out with a new crew as Q210-04 once P091 and P092 passed through the area.

The terrible set of circumstances then proceeded to play out. IF the Signal Suspension was not in place this past weekend to cut in the new PTC enabled signaling, the signal at the SE of Dixiana Siding at the S366.5 (just north of the Silica Runaround) would have displayed a Red Board stopping P091 before entering that block where the switch was left open. P091 would have had to call the FF Dispatcher to get talked by that signal at the SE of Dixiana and would have been moving at restricted speed in that block, giving P091 ample time to stop before impact (and possibly before entering the Silica Runaround where F777 was tied down.) Attached is a clip from the timetable of the area where the event took place.

[TheOldDessauer]

From: Jacksonville Business Journal

Incorrect information from CSX employee led to Sunday's fatal crash

By: Will Robinson-Reporter


Incorrect information from a CSX Corp. employee at the site of Sunday's deadly Amtrak train crash led to the accident, according to CSX records and a source.

A signal system that would have warned the Amtrak train that it was being sent onto the wrong track was shut off at the time of a crash Sunday that killed two people — including Orange Park resident Michael Cella — and injured 116.The system in the area was being upgraded and the signals were shut down as of 8 a.m. Saturday, according to CSX documents obtained by the Jacksonville Business Journal.

According to safety procedures during such a situation, an on-site employee is responsible for making sure the switch that directs a train to a particular track is in in the proper position. This switch was not, however.

Shortly before the 2:35 a.m. crash, Amtrak 91 stopped five miles before the site of the collision and waited for a go-ahead from a CSX dispatcher, per CSX protocol when a signaling system is being worked on, CSX documents show.

After the CSX conductor on site told a dispatcher that the switch was properly aligned, the dispatcher gave the go-ahead for the Amtrak train, which was carrying 139 passengers and eight crew members bound from New York to Miami, to proceed.

However, CSX had earlier backed a freight train from the main track onto the siding, National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Robert Sumwalt said during a news conference.

"The switch was left in a position to line up for this siding," Sumwalt said. "We want to understand exactly why that's the case."


The misaligned switch sent Amtrak's train directly into the parked CSX freight train, train F77703. The switch was padlocked in place when investigators arrived, Sumwalt said.

The distance from the switch to the site of the crash was 659 feet.

Seven seconds before the crash, the Amtrak train sounded its horn for three seconds, according to the train's event data recorder.

Five seconds before the crash, the Amtrak train started braking.

Three seconds before the crash, the Amtrak engineer hit the mushroom-shaped emergency brake, slowing the train down to 50 mph.

The head-to-head impact pushed the parked CSX train back 15 feet.

NTSB investigators have interviewed the dispatcher as well as the CSX conductor, engineer and train master and plan to remain onsite this week. The organization will release a preliminary report a few weeks after investigators return to NTSB headquarters.

[JohnS]

[JerryC]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02 ... eport.html

[dejoh]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/11/in-secret-deal-tax-backed-amtrak-pays-for-private-railroads-screwups-report.html

Very interesting article. Thanks Jerry.

[gtrtroger]

"The question of how they share that liability is cloaked in secrecy. The money is coming from Amtrak when our clients get the check."
- Ron Goldman, California plaintiff attorney

Ruminating here......

AMTRAK is federally funded. This makes them subject to Freedom of Information Act and to the GAO for accounting oversight. Obtaining the “secret” details of contracts between carriers and AMTRAK should be easy as pie and a matter of public record. It’s like that for all other government dept contracts. STB and AMTRAK need to quit playing patty fingers and using kid gloves, get the Congress folks on the previous train wreck in MD, Pass some dern laws about liability and force carriers to be responsible for these types of libilities. If you make a mistake, you got to pay. You don’t get to point fingers at others and say it’s their fault.

[buzz456]

"The question of how they share that liability is cloaked in secrecy. The money is coming from Amtrak when our clients get the check."
- Ron Goldman, California plaintiff attorney

Ruminating here......

AMTRAK is federally funded. This makes them subject to Freedom of Information Act and to the GAO for accounting oversight. Obtaining the “secret” details of contracts between carriers and AMTRAK should be easy as pie and a matter of public record. It’s like that for all other government dept contracts. STB and AMTRAK need to quit playing patty fingers and using kid gloves, get the Congress folks on the previous train wreck in MD, Pass some dern laws about liability and force carriers to be responsible for these types of libilities. If you make a mistake, you got to pay. You don’t get to point fingers at others and say it’s their fault.

On the other hand I would have to say that if Amtrak has no significant contribution to any railroads bottom line and they wanted me to assume possibly huge liability I would tell them to go run their trains down some other railroad's tracks. If you want to change some rule why don't you make it so you don't do stupid stuff like run normal speed in a dark area.

[gtrtroger]

...Amtrak has no significant contribution to any railroads bottom line...

I agree with your premise but, the attached pdf, while about 9 years old, indicates that AMTRAK does contribute to a railroads bottom line.... 3.3% of 2009 Operating Costs for trackage rights....and probably more today.
The contracts with carriers should and must give recourse to both parties - FED Contract Law requires this. Access is granted and guaranteed by FED law, so that’s not subject to negotiation, but AMTRAK does “pay” for a carrier railroad use, and by FED law AMTRAK should and must have legal standing to demand and expect a least a minimum safety position from each carrier. AMTRAK does have recourse, and should pursue the letter of the law. AMTRAK needs to get CSX in a courtroom press the contract liability issue. As a retired government contacting officer, with courtroom experience, I have some familiarity and insight into these liability issues. The fact that AMTRAK has been reluctant to pursue legal action in the past does not mean they shouldn’t do so now based on recent events.

[buzz456]

You are absolutely correct sir. To remedy this I propose we eliminate Amtrak except for the corridor. For the most part it makes no sense and I for one am tired of subsidizing it. Then the post office.

[gtrtroger]

Agreed.....

[JerryC]

And I thought I was the only railfan on the planet who thinks continued taxpayer support of Amtack is real bad idea.

[buzz456]

Well now you know that there are three of us.