Gradients are broken

[donjgatlin]

If it will promote much safer rail operations, then they should implement it. Really, if they are doing their job correctly, they shouldn't worry about getting in trouble for doing something wrong. However, being replaced is a different story. I would think that the data loggers could also benefit the creation of future locomotive types and driver training to further improve rail operations. As for train's that control themselves, I don't think that's a good idea. While computers may be able to carry out tasks well, the costs of adding the technology to all rail vehicles that would make it safe enough to do so in freight operations would likely greatly outpace the salaries and damages done to/by crews. Not to mention the amount of computing power it would take to process all the data from sensors and such.

In response to the post above this one, do you know what the penalty for doing that is? I know that in high-speed rail operations that only about 3KPH over is acceptable by most management and over 7KPH over would result in an emergency stop (Note, I said KPH, not MPH)(TVM 430). I can't imagine what would happen for doing ten over, in MPH.

[mapitts]

Don't know what happened to them. With typical NS managment at the time, they were problably fired. What got me about thew whole thing was that the train pulling onto the main off the branch, not siding, had the orders to occupy main track between two named points. Where they were, it was well within the limits of those 2 points. The rule does state what I said in my last post. Another case of not following the rules, even if "just" 10 MPH. I remember telling the guy I was with that I would have preceeded down the main at 13 - 14 MPH until I saw the signal hoping I was tying the trainmaster and dispatchers guts in knots. Some of the rules are just crazy stupid. It's like the fact that you can hace 23 locomotives. It is considered a "light engine movement not to exceed 35 MPH". Put a box car behind it and it is now a "train" and you can move a maximum authorized track speed. ??? No wonder the railroads are always looking for people. I can tell you story after story after story about crazy things I have actually seen done on railroads to get trains over the road with managment looking the other way while it broke about 15 or 20 rules.

[Rich_S]

If it will promote much safer rail operations, then they should implement it. Really, if they are doing their job correctly, they shouldn't worry about getting in trouble for doing something wrong. However, being replaced is a different story. I would think that the data loggers could also benefit the creation of future locomotive types and driver training to further improve rail operations. As for train's that control themselves, I don't think that's a good idea. While computers may be able to carry out tasks well, the costs of adding the technology to all rail vehicles that would make it safe enough to do so in freight operations would likely greatly outpace the salaries and damages done to/by crews. Not to mention the amount of computing power it would take to process all the data from sensors and such.

In response to the post above this one, do you know what the penalty for doing that is? I know that in high-speed rail operations that only about 3KPH over is acceptable by most management and over 7KPH over would result in an emergency stop (Note, I said KPH, not MPH)(TVM 430). I can't imagine what would happen for doing ten over, in MPH.

LEADER (Positive Train Control) is now required by the Federal Government on all locomotives that will operate on mainline track. All locomotives are to be equipped by the year 2015, but at this point it looks as though the railroads are going to ask for an extension. All new locomotives currently being delivered from EMD and GE are factory equipped with LEADER.

As far as being over the speed limit. In LSL territory, One MPH over will sound the alarm, three MPH over the speed limit will cause a penalty brake application, which will get the dispatchers attention. I can tell you from personal experience the very next thing the crew will do is report the speedometer is off by 3 mph

[Rich_S]

The tattle tale on the speed thing is known as "trapping".

Not sure what you mean by the above statement, but I can tell you, that if the weed weasels think you were speeding or some other issue arises during your trip, the first thing they are going to do is download the event recorder.

[hertsbob]

Bob, It doesn't matter what the truth is when you have a certain amount of mistrust on both sides

Fair point.

We have two automatic systems in use in London, the DLR which has always been driverless http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway, and more recently the Jubilee Line on the Underground.

Under automatic operation, the on-train computer instructs the train operator what to do. The underlying protection system is called TBTC, which stands for Transmission-Based Train Control. The computer does everything except opening and closing the doors, starting the train at every station, mending faults and dealing with passengers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_line#Signalling_system

But neither of these are even close to having the same operating environment as the locos we're talking about here!

Marias Pass? Hmmm. What to say?

The gradient monitor Bill was talking about is of very little use for about 95% of it.

Honestly. I'd love to spout on for hours about it, but I simply can't.

Anyway, I've not seen this before...

Marvellous!

Cheers

Bob

[mapitts]

I look at it this way. Railroads and many companies are trying to save money any way they can. First thing any company does is to reduce labor costs. They have already reduced the number of of people with 2 man crews for years on through trains. Locals around here for CSX still get 3. NS gets a 2 man crew with one guy who rides around in a vehicle to help as needed. I work in skilled trades. In my area we were cut from 2 people down to one due to retirements. Try fitting and welding pipe by yourself. 2 men can actually do the job faster and more efficient than one. Same thing applies to railroads IMHO. If you have a problem out in the middle of God knows where, 2 men can do the job quicker than one. A busted knuckle is a very good example. Try carrying a 75 pound knuckle, your light, a hammer, and a pair of channel locks down the side of the train in the dark, snow, rain, or any combination of the two. Sure you can tie a rope or small chain to the knuckle and drag it behind you. Now give me 2 men and a piece of pipe to carry it and the job soon becomes much quicker and much more SAFE. Same thing applies to over the road switching. 2 people can do it much more safely than 1. 2 people can watch each other and the train movement, switches, track, etc. A conductor died here in this town on Oct. 14, 2009 because he left a cut of cars fouling the main. He called the train clear to back up and stuck the cars fouling the main. About 8 cars rolled over with one of them crushing him to death. It took a day to cut the cars off of him to get to the body. How many other times had this happened on other railroads? Another set of eyes might well have caught that simple mistake, saving damaged cars, track, trains unable to move, and more importantly a LIFE. I fully understand that railroads and many other industries have to make a profit to stay in business. Any heavy industy is a very dangerous place to work. This is just my opinion. I see things from a manpower / job task pointof view. Saftey should be a priority for any comapany.