How the Califorina high-speed train will cross Tehachapi Pass (video).

[GSkid]

As people may know, Tehachapi Pass is one of the busiest single-track mainlines in the United States. It's an over 2+% grade climb that's twisting and a challenge for both locomotives and their engineers alike. The eastbound climb out of Bakersfield of heavy freight trains up the western side of the Tehachapi mountain range is the most popular section with railfans.

I was always wondering since the route was announced..... how in the world is the California High-Speed train gonna go over the steep and difficult Tehachapi Pass? What exact route would it take in relation to the route both UP & BNSF take up it? Maps of the precise route over the pass (Bakersfield to Palmdale) up to now were generic and vague as this map shows...



Well I just found this Oct 9, 2015 video animation from the California High-Speed authority (only 1,739 views as of this posting) that shows the EXACT path it's gonna take. Mixes animation with real world locations at times. If you look carefully, you can see the freight route on the map in relation to the high-speed route at times. You can see they first split from each other at Sandcut if you pay close enough attention....



With more projected cost overruns just announced ....

http://www.latimes.com/local/california ... story.html

My guess is as the lawsuits against it continue to pile up and cost projections keep rising, I believe the mounting critics and the public opinion tide against it will eventually stop the high-speed rail plans from being completed. At least that's my opinion on the matter. If not, this is gonna be a horrendously expensive train system for tax payers that will likely never come close to projected ridership or breaking-even financially. It would likely become the biggest subsidized, most expensive white elephant public project in the history of the United States.

[gtrtroger]

I always thought the idea of doing 36 miles of tunnels a bit strange given that efforts are underway to double track the existing freight route and daylight all the tunnels. That not withstanding, I believe it will get completed at any cost; not because the landowners in the Central Valley don't want it, but, because the populations of the LA Basin and the San Francisco/Oakland Basins DO want it.

[buzz456]

I agree a hundred percent. This is a truly stupid idea even by Kalifornia standards.

[Ericmopar]

I always thought the idea of doing 36 miles of tunnels a bit strange given that efforts are underway to double track the existing freight route and daylight all the tunnels. That not withstanding, I believe it will get completed at any cost; not because the landowners in the Central Valley don't want it, but, because the populations of the LA Basin and the San Francisco/Oakland Basins DO want it.

You have no idea how wrong you are.
My friends in Ca are livid. No one wants this POS rail system. California would be better off putting the money into the school system.
The High Speed rail would mostly service high crime, gang ridden cities and be a target for vandalism and sabotage. It would strictly be a toy for the upper 1%.

You and Buzz have some very off ideas about California.
Once again it's a ego thing for the politicians and wealthy, paid for at tax payers expense. The general population does not want this crap.

Part of the problem is California being a high tech state. You get wealthy butt wipes doing business in places like Japan and China, then next thing you know they want what they have.
It's purely peter thumping on a gigantic scale.

[gtrtroger]

Understanding that I know (way) far less about this issue than any native Californian, and not disagreeing with Eric's point, but, I have to ask: "Which California voters approved the high speed rail bond act?" Also understand that I'm back-reading to 2008 and the "Kings County vs. High Speed Rail" litigation press reports and other stories as I write this, so, forgive any misunderstandings I may have.... And, also, that I may not have the slightest clue as to what I'm talking about and have stumbled into the proverbial mine field.

[buzz456]

Major stumbling around is permitted in the jungle.

[Bananarama]

Besides the thought of riding through a tunnel in earthquake country, this is one of the biggest waste of tax $$ in CA history, and I for one didn't vote for it. As it was observed above, the line is a toy for the upper 1%, and they'll get bored with it quickly enough.

[Ericmopar]

First of all, as a native son of Ca, why would I want to take a train from the Bay Area to L.A. then have to spend money on a rental car at the other end? (On top of the train ticket price)
I'd rather take the scenic drive down the valley or coast and stop when I please and go where I please on the way up and back.
I agree with Marc on the Earthquake comments as well.

This is the biggest boondoggle in Ca history, except for the fact of Southern Ca stealing almost all the water in the Southwest and Northern Ca.

If it was voted on it might have been a "rider" bill, or it might have been a infamous case of voting "no" actually meant "yes" on the ballot...

What's funny is this.
I haven't met a California rail fan yet, that thinks high speed rail in Ca is a good idea. We know our own terrain too well.

[GSkid]

I always thought the idea of doing 36 miles of tunnels a bit strange given that efforts are underway to double track the existing freight route and daylight all the tunnels. That not withstanding, I believe it will get completed at any cost; not because the landowners in the Central Valley don't want it, but, because the populations of the LA Basin and the San Francisco/Oakland Basins DO want it.

First of all, the high speed train wouldn't be high speed at all if it were to follow the freight route. It certainly wouldn't be using the freight track. It needs to have a much more straight and direct route for the train in order for it to have any decent speed. I don't know what the grade % is going to be but it will likely be steeper than the freight line. Since the high speed train will have a lot of horsepower and much less weight and cars to pull, it should have no problem climbing it. I've often wondered what's the highest grade % a single conventional (non-cogged) locomotive by itself (pulling no cars behind it) can climb.

Ericmopar is right... the voters have slowly been turning against this project for years now and that will likely only get worse. The vote on the California Proposition 1A (2008) bond issue was 52.62% voting YES and 47.38% voting NO. Not exactly a landslide win and certainly not a mandate. If that same bond issue were on the ballot today, polls now show it wouldn't pass. So no... it's not exactly popular right now and it never really was.

As for the double tracking? We call it that but the pass is technically NOT being double tracked. It's more like sidings are being extended. Even if they were to go with their full original ambitious plan, there was still going to be single track in 4 sections of the route over the pass.

Single track would STILL remain..... between Bealville and Cliff...... between Cliff and Rowen..... between Woodford and Walong.... and between Marcel and Cable.

When it comes to daylighting the tunnels? See....that's actually pure speculation by many people cuz if you look at the artist renderings of these tunnels from the original environmental report on this project, they simply have a 2nd track going around the side of the tunnel with the tunnel remaining intact. So far the Tunnel #10 project's current state looks like the rendering... still intact.

The original report and renderings are here...

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist6/environment ... st2012.pdf

So the pass will still have single track choke points, but longer trains and clever timing of trains on the sidings should allow more cargo to go over the pass and at a faster rate then it currently does.

That should help alleviate some of the issues and tension between UP and BNSF. Cuz I was told by a couple long time railfans up there (not sure if it's true or not) that when BNSF paid to have the tunnels modified to allow double-stacks over the pass, the stipulation was that UP (the owner of the tracks over the pass) were not allowed to double-stack their own trains over the pass for a period of 4 years.

I was also told (again.. not sure if true or not) that another source of tension between the railroads on the pass was that UP dispatchers were at times purposely keeping BNSF trains stuck on the sidings...sometimes for hours. I'm not sure if it was done to give UP trains priority over the pass or not. But I was told that it had become so bad that the delays had UPS telling BNSF to get the issue resolved soon or they were gonna give someone else the contract (I'm assuming UP?!?). I didn't hear how it was resolved, but apparently BNSF somehow got UP dispatchers to stop the shenanigans.

[gtrtroger]

...issue was 52.62% voting YES and 47.38% voting NO. Not exactly a landslide win and certainly not a mandate.

Sounds like a lot of the voting that goes on around my house...lol. Of course. I'm the 47%.....
My original thought revolved around the tunneling issue and why they would do this in this day and age. Smoothing the grade would certainly be a reason. The Europeans have been tunneling through mountains for years, and then there's the Chunnel...... The video clearly shows they would be taking the kinks out of the freight route. The rest was speculation. Besides, Elton Musk and the folks at MIT are working on a better solution.......right! Supersonic pods I nside a glass tube.....right!

[bpetit]

Gskid,

FYI, its ATSF and SP not UP and BNSF. 1990s by the way.

[GSkid]

Gskid,

FYI, its ATSF and SP not UP and BNSF. 1990s by the way.

What part of what I said happened pre-1996 mergers when it was still ATSF and SP over the pass? I was living out of state in Wisconsin for a number of years and missed it, but certainly the modifications to the tunnels for double stacking must have happened after 1996. So then are you saying it was SP dispatchers that left ATSF trains languishing on sidings and not UP? These guys that told me these things didn't specify a date of when these issues took place. They referenced only UP and BNSF, so I just naturally assumed these occurred in the post-merger era.

[bpetit]

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?1,3573931

I came across this a while back while someone on a different sim said I couldn't run stacks through those tunnels.

[gtrtroger]

Interesting.....
I'm assuming that TOFC are unaffected.
This time frame sits between SF / BN and SP / UP mergers. Wonder if there were some politics/bad blood affecting the "contract". Guess will never know...
Would look interesting in an RW scenario.... Will give it a shot with some SP and SF stuff...

[GSkid]

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,3573931

I came across this a while back while someone on a different sim said I couldn't run stacks through those tunnels.

Well this Pentrex video titled "Double Stacks Over Tehachapi" states it was started and completed in August 1994. I left for Wisconsin in 1993 for a number of years and is the reason I didn't know when it was done.

EDIT: OK......Watched the WHOLE video and it says the project was to cost $6 million and ended up costing $8 million. SP agreed to pay half if they decided to run double stacks. Apparently they did and I'm assuming they did pay. So I guess the 4 year exclusivity is an urban myth?





This just in....

"Change in bullet train construction plans will delay rail line's arrival in Southern California"

Facing high construction costs and political opposition in Southern California, the state has decided to build the first 250-mile section of the California bullet train from the Kern County line to San Jose instead of Fresno to Burbank.

The reversal by the California High-Speed Rail Authority would delay the arrival of high-speed rail for Southern California, which was originally planned as the end point for the project's initial operating segment.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california ... story.html

They are getting even more desperate to try to ram this down our throats and save the project!