(WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby bnsfsubdivision » Fri May 20, 2016 2:09 am

Hack wrote:
bnsfsubdivision wrote:I prefer something "solid" *!greengrin!*

You may, but your users might not. Nuts and bolts are one thing, but a stack of washers is silly. Besides which, you're creating more work for yourself with multiple exports. FWIW, you can use the high poly models you created to create the normal map (nm). If you keep the parts using nm large, say 2048 x 2048, you may find that you can't tell the difference between the model and the nm.


Sure I could. However from my experience it's very simple to tell whether a model is in fact highly detailed or just looking so. Besides, I am using bump maps too just not for details but rather for things like moisture effects on the hood.

It's a very nice looking model, and it would be a shame if it turns into a poly bomb. Anyone can throw polys at a project, but it takes some practice to create an efficient game-ready model. :D


I can assure anyone here that this thing will run just fine. I've said it multiple times in the past but expect frame rates close to Mike's FEF-3. I don't think anyone can just throw polys at a project as you said, if fact there's very few I can think of who know how to. Most people just lay back and come up with excuses because they don't want to put real effort into their projects with the best excuse IMHO still being the max poly count... "20,000 polys at max for an engine". Yeah perhaps 10 years ago but not today. Poly count is no longer an issue. You just have to effectively use it in combination with textures and mapping. That's what makes a great high detailed yet user friendly model.
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby mrennie » Fri May 20, 2016 7:00 am

I've always been reluctant to give out this information but I think it's time to do it.

As Kev says, that 20K polycount budget for a locomotive is, in my opinion, ridiculous and, if adhered to, leads to models that can be ugly when viewed up close (which is what I like to do). I particularly dislike low-poly cab views because when you're in the cab, everything is viewed in close-up, so things such as 16-sided gauges (that are meant to be round) are very noticeable.

3DC has a plug-in that counts faces and points, and also calculates how many triangles there would be if all the faces were triangulated (e.g. a four-sided face being split into two triangles with a common edge). I'm not sure which of those counts towards the "polycount" so I'll just give them all, for the "HD" version of the UP FEF-3:

Faces Triangulated Points
Engine: 286,690 543,827 311,601
Tender: 123,483 184,412 114,203
Total: 410,173 728,239 425,804

Most people say the FEF-3 runs smoothly, and comments about low frame rates are very rare, and come from players with laptops that struggle to play TS regardless of loco. I've also noticed that it tends to depend much more on the route anyway. In any case, for those people, I made the "SD" version that has far fewer rivets, nuts and bolts.

There are videos on YouTube of people running two or three FEF-3s at the same time, with silky smooth frame rates (and that is despite the frame rate hit from the recording software!).

That said, I wouldn't recommend going way above the figures I put there for the FEF-3. Somehow, I doubt a model with 7 million triangulated faces would do well.

There's also the matter of textures - size and number of files - and the choice of shaders used on different parts. The FEF-3 has a lot of them, but again, it hasn't caused a problem. However, I was always very careful to use simpler shaders, such as TrainBasicObjectDiffuse.fx, wherever it wasn't worthwhile using the more complex (and therefore more demanding) ones such as TrainBumpSpecEnvMask.fx.

By the way, I use bump mapping quite a lot. For example, I use it with the rivets on both the SD and HD version - the HD version has 3D rivets on top of the bump mapping that simulates the oxidation and metal-bending that occurs around the rivet). Mainly I use bump-mapping to achieve a realistic look to the surfaces of different materials, such as the "orange-peel" effects that you get on cast metal, partly from the sand in the pattern used to cast the piece and partly from the bubbling of the paint applied to the metal afterwards. Another good example is the bending of the sheet metal smoke deflectors, showing the way the metal bends around the framework of the smoke deflector. It was much more effective to use bump-mapping for that than to model the bends in 3D.

Something else I recommend is to build and export the model a few parts at a time, building it up in stages and seeing how it looks in-game, and checking its framerates, when viewed from various angles and distances.

I also make extensive use of LODs, so that, for instance, rivets, nuts and bolts disappear from the model at the exact distance where the eye wouldn't be able to distinguish them from the bump mapping underneath, or see them at all. That compensates for the fact that as you move the camera away from the model, more of the scenery comes into view, which impacts the frame rates.

Another thing that can impact frame rates is the scripting. I took enormous care over the optimization of the scripts. For example, there are some things that have to be done on every call to Update, such as all the calculates that govern the gauges, but some other things can be distributed over a 1-second interval, to lower the average CPU load of the script (did I ever mention that I used to develop safety-critical real-time embedded software for aircraft and spacecraft? ... optimization and efficiency is second nature to me).

I could go on and on about this topic (there's a lot more to it than the above) but I'd better leave it at that.
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby eyein12 » Fri May 20, 2016 9:18 am

no expert modeler adheres to the 20K poly rule from 10 years ago I can tell you right off the bat. My newest models are pushing 175K body and cab interior combined, they run no problems with frame rates with MUs. Computers are faster and demand for High quality products is high as well.
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby mrennie » Fri May 20, 2016 9:38 am

eyein12 wrote:no expert modeler adheres to the 20K poly rule from 10 years ago I can tell you right off the bat. My newest models are pushing 175K body and cab interior combined, they run no problems with frame rates with MUs. Computers are faster and demand for High quality products is high as well.


+1 !!*ok*!!
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby PapaXpress » Fri May 20, 2016 10:18 am

VRC models are well up there as well. The GP40 broke that old rule as soon as we saw Mike's Connie.
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby mrennie » Fri May 20, 2016 10:19 am

PapaXpress wrote:VRC models are well up there as well. The GP40 broke that old rule as soon as we saw Mike's Connie.


+1 (or should that be +2?) :D
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby eyein12 » Fri May 20, 2016 11:07 am

I broke that rule on my very first dash 8. I couldnt live with myself with less visually.
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby Bananarama » Fri May 20, 2016 2:15 pm

I can assure you that I didn't just pull my opinion out of a hat. It was only a suggestion, however. :D
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby bnsfsubdivision » Thu May 26, 2016 2:51 pm

Quick update on the fuel tank. Now onto texturing the fuel filler & level.

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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby ZekTheKid » Thu May 26, 2016 4:11 pm

!!*ok*!!
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby bnsfsubdivision » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:32 am

Another update. Not a lot of new things to see as I'm busy with other stuff, however I did start on the internal frame. Not too much progress on it though (no smoothed edges or additional parts added yet).

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Something I didn't know before but came to realize is that the frames on earlier built EMD units vary from the newer ones/later built engines. Interestingly, the engine rack on earlier built engines for instance is generally placed closer to the prime mover for some reason. Surely there's more changes but I yet have to discover those *!greengrin!*

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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby bnsfsubdivision » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:59 am

Still working on the internals.

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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby ZekTheKid » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:01 am

Wait, so is there going to be a camera view that allows you to open the doors on the hood so that you can cold start the engine by turning the start switch?
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby BNSFdude » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:10 am

It isn't always a cold start when you start it from the start station, it's where you start them period. There's no push button on SD40-2s.
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Re: (WIP)**GMD SD40-2 CP Rail**In Development from Searchlight Simulations

Unread postby ENR3005 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:36 pm

I can almost smell the diesel and oil. Great detail!

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