Illegal DLC?

[Hawk]

Has anyone seen this thread over at UKTS (starting on page 7) http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... a&start=90 ?

I think it was a good idea to lock that thread over there, so I'm going to do the same thing here until clarification has been supplied.

I just wanted folks to be aware of the discussion and possible implications.

[Hawk]

I sent Paul Jackson an email yesterday evening around 7:00 PM - EST. I got a reply from him this morning saying that as far as he knew there has been no changes to the way things have been done, but he would check into it.

[Hawk]

Well, here it is Wednesday and still no word form Paul Jackson.
It would seem there isn't any interest at RS.com in clarifying this issue, and the UKTS thread is still locked so they haven't heard anything.

I guess that means nothing has changed.

I did unlock this topic in case anyone wants to throw their in.

[Machinist]

At my side the problem is not what would be changed, but exactly what is the current unchanged thingy.

[MontanaRails]

I understand the reason for this one, but it does seem there are more and more disclaimers about "3rd party work":



Although, if all this is true, I doubt it will change how the community reacts. You cant build a simulator that encourages 3rd party development, let it blossom, and then try to limit it. If they're serious about it, I dont see how they can survive as a company.

I too am waiting for the official response...

[Hawk]

I would like to add: Please folks, let's keep wild speculation out of this thread.

Not that Doc or Brandon have done that. I just wanted to add that comment.

[Hack]

"...in you (sic) submissions." ?

Sheesh.

Nevermind that, though. "3rd party logos and designs" is nothing out of the ordinary, or am I missing something?

[Hawk]

"...in you (sic) submissions." ?

Sheesh.

HUH?

[Old Prof]

I understand the reason for this one, but it does seem there are more and more disclaimers about "3rd party work":

I think that a more careful reading is in order. The statement you are presumably commenting on states, "Please do not include any third party logos or designs in your submissions". It does not mention "3rd party work". Third party logos or designs almost certainly refers to graphic images that are the property of railroad companies and that cannot be displayed without their owner's permission due to copyright law. This is a matter all too frequently ignored by users of the so-called "social media", but a legal requirement none the less. An individual who posts, let's say, a photo of a real-life boxcar with the GN logo painted on it, is not likely to be prosecuted, but if a company such as RSC replicates that image on its website, that could be another matter entirely, especially since RSC has established licensing agreements with particular railroad lines, but not with others.

In this context, also note RSC's reply to the inquiry from Tom McEnteggart: "... feel free to use our logo. It should be noted however that FB does not allow website addresses it cover photos, so please do not include them." Before descending into near illiteracy, this constitutes permission to use the RSC logo. I assume that "FB" means FaceBook and that the "it" should read "in": so there's another restriction, which also might be read as indicating that the "third party logos or designs" restriction comes from FaceBook, not from RSC. The old saying that, "Haste makes waste" certainly applies to social media, and to the reading of same!

Regards,

[Hack]

HUH?

Should be "your submissions" and not "you submissions".

[ex-railwayman]

Hmmm, well, this is getting a bit ridiculous if you ask me, I have never bothered with anything to do with Facebook, so, as long as Hawk doesn't mind us submitting our personal screenshots of anything to do with Railworks3, freeware and/or Payware content, onto this forum, then I'll keep on doing it.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[Rich_S]

I think that a more careful reading is in order. The statement you are presumably commenting on states, "Please do not include any third party logos or designs in your submissions". It does not mention "3rd party work". Third party logos or designs almost certainly refers to graphic images that are the property of railroad companies and that cannot be displayed without their owner's permission due to copyright law. This is a matter all too frequently ignored by users of the so-called "social media", but a legal requirement none the less. An individual who posts, let's say, a photo of a real-life boxcar with the GN logo painted on it, is not likely to be prosecuted, but if a company such as RSC replicates that image on its website, that could be another matter entirely, especially since RSC has established licensing agreements with particular railroad lines, but not with others.

Regards,

Hi Tom and Group,
The way I understand this, if I post a photo of A Great Northern boxcar, there is no harm no foul. I did nothing more than take a picture of something GN painted and now BNSF owns. If I make a model of a boxcar in either "V" scale or some other model railroad scale and paint it into Great Northern colors and use their logos, then BNSF can raise a fuss, because I used their logo without permission. It's all about quality control. This whole debate started a number of years ago between the Union Pacific and model railroad manufactures, which lead to the various licensing programs. Another example of railroads protecting their logo was the Chessie System requiring model manufactures to display the registered logo beside the Chessie broken dish logo (Cat in the circle logo). When you purchased a Athearn locomotive painted in the Chessie Paint scheme, you'd notice a little "R" near the Chessie logo. The circled "R" indicated the Chessie logo was a registered trade mark of the Chessie System railroad. After reading through the above information, my take is Face Book does not want to become involved in any copyright infringement lawsuits, so RSC is asking that you only post screen shots of what comes with the Simulator, because they already have the rights to use those logos. Just my and I'm not a lawyer so your mileage my vary

Regards,
Rich S.

[buzz456]

If you were a lawyer you wouldn't make that much sense.

[Hawk]

Should be "your submissions" and not "you submissions".

I figured that. I just didn't understand the statement.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I am sorry but I still don't understand this completely.The lawyer's language is a little above my level. So Hawk, feel free to remove this posting as you probably don't want to clutter this important thread.

What risk do we run here at RWA and other US centered boards that distribute complete models of current US prototype engines and repaints that use certain RSC shape files?

The TS2012 loading screen says only a few railroads, UP and BNSF for instance, as officially licensed. The NEC and Acela addons are marked as 'officially licenced' from Amtrak. Did Amtrak pay for their development and therefor has some form of "ownership", either propreitary or just intellectual?

So technically do we need to ask permission forn CSX or NS to apply their logo and colour scheme to our models? We might be asked to sign a certain agreement so as not to deface/discredit said companies? We might be asked a licensing fee? Then let's hope they don't find out about all the repaints available here, even if they are Fallen Flags, because the name and "flag" now belongs to NS or CSX?

So if I want to repaint a SW1500 in Union Railroad colours and would like to apply the company logo just to make my virtual and private copy of P&LE look realistic I should apply in writing for permission? Private here being the key word, as I do not publicly display that unit and do not intend to sell it or any images with it or make use of it in any disproper way?

Since Union is only a small regional with a low profile it says nothing of the sort at their web adress: http://www.trstarinc.com/union/? Parent Transtar has no such details up front on their web pages either. No doubt major high profile carriers and nationwide companies are different. Anybody care to find out and make that call and possibly raise a hornet's nest?