Update on the steamers

Discussion of rolling-stock creation & re-painting.

Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby Hack » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:12 pm

Where did you run out of water on Cajon? IIRC, eastbound refills would have taken place at Keenbrook and then at Victorville, and since the route doesn't contain additional water (AFAIK), it's no wonder you ran dry.
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby jalsina » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:43 pm

Hack wrote:Where did you run out of water on Cajon? IIRC, eastbound refills would have taken place at Keenbrook and then at Victorville, and since the route doesn't contain additional water (AFAIK), it's no wonder you ran dry.

What I do refer to is a locomotive error that terminates the scenario session, giving a "Locomotive ran out of water" message, found in double header steam trains. However the case I am telling to David has to do with the Challenger in a single loco consist. This happens even with a 80 or 90% boiler water level.
Nothing to do with water scoops. :D
EDIT:
Here is an example of a single Challenger near the Cajon Summit. Take a look to the water level:

2015-10-27_00022.jpg
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:53 am

Aye, that's always been a puzzle.

In other news, the AC-10/12 is progressing well. According to sources, the Cab Forwards were limited to 1625t. unassisted on the 2.4% grades of the Sierra. With a 25mph speed limit the loco maintains this easily, using nearly full throttle and somewhere in the vicinity of 30% cutoff (in the F5 HUD anyway). Injectors are keeping the boiler filled with water (again with the 25mph speed limit I've had to use the live steam injector - not fast enough AFAIK for exhaust injectors).

I will run a few more trials, with another freight run out of Truckee and then passenger runs (using Britkits' heavyweights) with a particularly long passenger consist I found in a video I which I think Pentrex put out all about the cab forwards.
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:38 pm

Took train 21 (Pacific Limited) over the road from Truckee to Norden in just over a half hour with the modified Cab Forward. 15 heavyweights at 30mph was no problem, although there were a couple of times I needed to use both injectors to keep up with the boiler. Perhaps I should try a fast run from Barstow down toward Victorville to see if the injectors can keep up.

Here's some shots:

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.31829--120.21070_12-04-12.jpg
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Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.31878--120.21169_12-04-26.jpg
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Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.31779--120.21890_12-05-46.jpg
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Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.30275--120.25411_12-14-35.jpg
Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.30275--120.25411_12-14-35.jpg (264.07 KiB) Viewed 2201 times
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:59 pm

High speed trial out of Barstow confirms that the injectors are working and can keep up with the boiler. It shouldn't be too much longer before the mod's ready.

The next couple of weekends are going to be busy for me, though: I'll be having a lesson with a music instructor in Edwardsville, judging a music contest in Quincy, and then the weekend after that it's back to Edwardsville to audition for grad school. *!greengrin!* So maybe a couple more weeks before I can publish this mod.
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:17 pm

So a couple of more weeks turned into 9. But who's counting? *!greengrin!*

I'll summarize most of what's been going on in one word: school. But I'm pleased to announce that the AC10/12 is ready to go! I just need to apply the mod to the weathered version and it will be ready for publishing!

Work has already begun on the next part of the "Final Phase" of mods for the American steam locos. I'm tackling the combined Big Boy and Challenger final round of mods now. This one promises to be more extensive than my previous mods for either loco and will take me some time to finish. Let me explain what's projected for this round of mods:

You will obviously need both payware versions of the Big Boy and the Challenger from steam for either mod to work, as parts of the Big Boy mod will reference things in the Challenger pack and some parts of the Challenger will reference things from the Big Boy pack, and I don't mean sounds. Here's the reasons for the referencing across the packs:

1) The Big Boy tender has always been an issue. The coal animation, even after DTG updated the loco, still makes the loco look like it's about to run out of coal. !*hp*! For me the devil's in the details, and no matter how I've tried to fix it, I just can't figure it out. So for the modified Big Boys, they're getting the Challenger's coal tenders, renumbered as needed. The Challengers and Big Boys pretty much had the same 14-wheeled tender, and it looks better. There will be no need to copy GEO files as the necessary aliases have already been made in the tender's bin files.

2) The Big Boy, as it is straight from the store, is set up to be a coal burner, as it should. However, the original pack was released years before UP announced its intentions to reacquire a Big Boy, convert it into an oil burner, restore it to working order, and use it in excursion service. There have been scenarios made featuring 4014 in "restored" condition, but those scenarios feature the engine with a coal tender, still set up as a coal burner. The devil's in the details, so I'm taking the Challenger's oil tender, aliasing all the blueprints, renumbering it to 4014, then I'm making a special variant of the original Big Boy which will be designated as "Union Pacific 4014" in the scenario editor. What's special about this is that I'm swapping the original cab view out of this Big Boy and replacing it with the Challenger's cab view, which is set up for oil burning, so not only externally will it look like 4014 once restored, but on the inside it will look a bit closer to what it will once it's converted to oil burning. I've already got this special variant working thanks to A TON of aliasing between the Challenger and the Big Boy pack and so far no major problems have come up. 4014 also now has its own unique thumbnail image in-game on the engine selection screen and on the loco information tab. 4014 also has its own loco information tab with information more specific to 4014.

3) The Challenger Pack comes with 3 variants of the 3900s: a black version with smoke wings, an overland grey version with smoke wings, and then the "standard" version without smoke wings. All engines are set up for oil burning, yet there's a coal tender included. After reading the above post about 4014, you can assume that I'll be switching the oil-burner cab view out of the coal-burning challengers and replacing those with the Big Boy's coal-burning cab view, so now the "standard" challenger will not only externally look like a coal burner, but on the inside it will also look like a coal burner, as it should. Seeing as how the 4014 oil-burning variant is working, I imagine this cab view swap will also work just fine.

4) There will be 3 variants of the Big Boys: the class 1 (Nos.4000-4019, 4884-1 on the scenario editor menu), the class 2 (Nos.4020-4024, 4884-2 on the scenario editor menu), and the restored 4014. There will be at least 4 variants of the Challengers: both smoke wing versions, the standard version (4664-3/4 on the scenario editor menu), and the last development of the Challengers (4664-5 on the scenario editor menu). Every member of each class will be represented in one way or another, so numbering schemes are going to be overhauled, with the front engine set having the prefix B, the rear engine set retaining its prefix X, and the tenders retaining their prefix C. This is so that each part of the engine will have its own number and the timetable editor won't freak out because 2 engine units share the same number and are right next to each other, returning a static consist clash and making marshal commands easier to program. The only engines that won't be represented are the original CSA 1 and 2 since those have never been released for Train Simulator.

So pretty much because of tender swaps and cab swaps, you will need both payware models for either mod to work properly.
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:19 pm

Here's 4014's thumbnail image:

Screenshot_Sherman Hill_41.12937--104.81441_16-00-27.jpg
The thumbnail image for Union Pacific 4014 which will appear on the engine select screen once used in a scenario.
Screenshot_Sherman Hill_41.12937--104.81441_16-00-27.jpg (362.08 KiB) Viewed 2114 times
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Fri May 13, 2016 8:46 am

I'm getting ready to graduate which means more free time is coming !*YAAA*! Expect the cab forward by next weekend.
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Tue May 17, 2016 8:43 am

Big Boys and Challengers, due to what I'm doing with them, are going to be a long-term project. Meanwhile I've only worked on the K4s for a few hours and it's almost done!

Here are some shots from the test runs so far with a mixture of stock from the Centipede pack and the PRR G-Trax repains to recreate the 1938 streamlined version of the Broadway Limited (yes it's the wrong time of day):

Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.49700--78.48606_12-11-53.jpg
Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.49700--78.48606_12-11-53.jpg (338.65 KiB) Viewed 1988 times

Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.49700--78.48606_12-11-54.jpg
Here is the actual thumbnail image
Screenshot_Horseshoe Curve_40.49700--78.48606_12-11-54.jpg (312.79 KiB) Viewed 1988 times
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby ZekTheKid » Tue May 17, 2016 4:51 pm

!*brav*!
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sat May 21, 2016 12:28 pm

Running final tests with the cab forwards now. I've implemented the weight upgrades for the freight cars that come in the pack. The pack comes with a loaded and empty version of the reefers, empty reefers having open ice hatches. The empty reefers with the update will weigh 26.85 short tons; they cannot be loaded because they have no capacity line. The other variant of the reefer comes with closed hatches with the option of being loaded or unloaded, however tests revealed that the capacity for whatever reason wasn't being implemented in scenarios. To remedy this, I've set the base weight of the closed-hatch variant of the reefers to the weight they would be if loaded, which is 66.85 short tons; the capacity line for these reefers has been set to 0. The weights for empty and capacity are based on the numbers printed on the side of the car, just add the printed empty and capacity weights together and convert in from pounds to short tons and you'll know how much you're pulling.

Historically the Cab Forwards were restricted to between 1450 and 1625 tons between Colfax and Norden; with the weight implementation on the reefers so far this has proven to be for good reason - the last test I was hauling tonnage up the grade with 24 reefers plus caboose and was dragging the train up the grade between 10-11mph. To be fair, the caboose put it over tonnage just a bit. I need to adjust the steam consumption figure of the injectors to make sure that drivers don't stall simply by refilling the boiler.

A similar weight mod will be applied to the boxcars, the difference being that instead of being fully-loaded their loaded versions will have 2/3 of the total capacity printed on the side of the car plus the base weight. They will be distinguished by the suffixes LD and MT in the scenario editor.

The caboose now weighs 23.4 tons thanks to a figure from a museum which has an SP C-40-3 caboose in its collection.
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Sun May 22, 2016 11:33 pm

Things are looking good. I might be able to submit the Cab Forward mod for publication tomorrow.

So about the tonnage rating:

I remember about a year and a half or so I was looking for some info about the Storm of 1952 when I happened upon a site with a detailed article about the City of San Francisco being snowbound at Yuba Pass. After the main part of the article there was a discussion about the final fate of the Cab Forwards on Donner Pass. Initially diesels appeared on other parts of SP's system first, displacing the big engines resulting in the relocation of almost every Cab Forward to work over the Hill from Roseville to Sparks. This led to the appearance of 3 Cab Forwards to a train since there were so many gathered on either side of the Sierras, which led to the displacement of the consolidations working helper service out of Colfax and Truckee, so for a little bit anyway helpers over the Pass disappeared (much like today). Diesels began to appear in the form of F-units primarily heading eastward freight trains en route to other sections of the SP with the Cab Forwards being used as helpers. As time went on and more diesels were delivered, they finally began to be used on the Hill in force and flushed out the Cab Forwards.

The article showed a tonnage rating chart for various locos on the subdivision. Working Eastward from Roseville to Emigrant Gap on track 1 (the original line) Cab Forwards were limited to 1450t, while working over track 2 from Roseville to Colfax the rating was slightly higher (I don't recall exactly but that may coincide with the 1625t. figure from last post). Between Emigrant Gap and Norden due to the grade lessening the tonnage was increased to 1625t. per Cab Forward (confirmed by testing).

Typical operations of the Cab Forwards over the Hill rarely saw them work alone; they were almost always working with a second Cab Forward, typically in the middle of the train. At Colfax a consolidation would be placed at the end of the train for the climb to Emigrant Gap if needed. At Emigrant Gap the Colfax helper would cut off and roll back down light engine. It was highly discouraged to place 2 Cab Forwards at the head end of a train due to obvious reasons such as exhaust fumes choking the crew similarly to a conventionally set-up steam locomotive. Times when the Cab Forwards would work alone were for passenger services, light freights, and maintenance-of-way duties, including snow removal. Occasionally a mogul or a consolidation would pilot a Cab Forward on a passenger train, but usually a Cab Forward could handle passenger work alone. Near the end of their careers over Donner Pass they headed season special traffic alone, such as "Strawberry Specials" which were just solid blocks of reefers.

And after that brief history lesson it's time for bed. Good night all and hopefully I can submit the mod tomorrow !*salute*!
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby dtrainBNSF1 » Mon May 23, 2016 8:35 am

Forgot to post these yesterday:

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.30843--120.64779_12-06-22.jpg
Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.30843--120.64779_12-06-22.jpg (254.82 KiB) Viewed 1894 times

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.30910--120.64668_12-06-32.jpg
Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.30910--120.64668_12-06-32.jpg (356.48 KiB) Viewed 1894 times

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.32386--120.57108_12-17-25.jpg
Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.32386--120.57108_12-17-25.jpg (266.54 KiB) Viewed 1894 times

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.32386--120.57108_12-18-03.jpg
Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.32386--120.57108_12-18-03.jpg (391.24 KiB) Viewed 1894 times

Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.32754--120.58221_12-16-00.jpg
Screenshot_Donner Pass Southern Pacific_39.32754--120.58221_12-16-00.jpg (298.21 KiB) Viewed 1894 times
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby jalsina » Mon May 23, 2016 2:21 pm

David,
Have you made some testing with the Cab Forward double header or a leading plus a rear helper, for a pretty extended time, to see how it behaves with the "ran-of-water" error (and subsequent ending of the scenario)?
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Re: Update on the steamers

Unread postby ZekTheKid » Mon May 23, 2016 2:36 pm

As of now what mods have been released?
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