Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

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Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:05 pm

I have some questions related with speed limits signs in FRC. Both are related to the lack of speed signs in the Feather River Canyon Extension route by dleeboy. I have been trying to help on that.

The original Feather RC route has very few "visible" speed signs on posts. Most of them are "invisible", normally when you have a switch. The question is, how are they set in the tracks? Do they have something to do with the automatic switch motors? Or do they have something to do with the FRC track rules?

The cloning of FRC and then the making of the FRC Extension did not port those signs to the final dleeboy´s route. Placing those manually (visible type) in the extension is not too hard but it is tiresome for the full route from Oroville to Portola.

Any idea if it is possible to import those speed signs from the FRC original tracks.bin to the FRC extension route tracks.bin?

A couple pictures of FRC original in Quincy Junction:

20160411232256_1.jpg
The track were the U30B is located is a 15 mph track.
The main one has a 25 mph limit
20160411232256_1.jpg (492.25 KiB) Viewed 1602 times

20160411232620_1.jpg
20160411232620_1.jpg (505.91 KiB) Viewed 1602 times

You can see there is no speed sign.
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby Ericmopar » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:20 pm

In this case, you would be using a right arrow speed warning sign.
I haven't had to place one of those for awhile, but it installs like this.
First you place the sign where you want it.
Then you might have a "sensor" that will be placed on the track with the reduced speed.
If no sensor is attached to the particular sign, you will have to highlight the sign, then double click on it to get the right hand flyout. Then you can type in the speed you want and click enter when finished.
If any track speeds are changed, or you enter in a wrong speed, start over with a new sign. Once in place the speed signs are little devils that want to hold the old erroneous info.

The signs are usually in the signals assets, but might be under something like miscellaneous, in the left center flyout window.

The signs are sometimes invisible, when the speed limit doesn't actually change in an area. They only show up in the HUD when there is an actual speed change in the area. IE lower to higher or visa versa.
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:24 am

Ericmopar wrote:In this case, you would be using a right arrow speed warning sign.
I haven't had to place one of those for awhile, but it installs like this.
First you place the sign where you want it.
Then you might have a "sensor" that will be placed on the track with the reduced speed.
If no sensor is attached to the particular sign, you will have to highlight the sign, then double click on it to get the right hand flyout. Then you can type in the speed you want and click enter when finished.
If any track speeds are changed, or you enter in a wrong speed, start over with a new sign. Once in place the speed signs are little devils that want to hold the old erroneous info.

The signs are usually in the signals assets, but might be under something like miscellaneous, in the left center flyout window.

The signs are sometimes invisible, when the speed limit doesn't actually change in an area. They only show up in the HUD when there is an actual speed change in the area. IE lower to higher or visa versa.


Thanks Eric,
I have been doing that during the last three days for the "FRC Extension" by dleeboy, until I goofed and damaged one of the tracks at Quincy Junction (and could not repair it). **!!bang!!**
There are L, R and LR signs besides normal ahead speed limit signs (or speed warning signs). I have no problem with setting those at all.

But this is not the main problem: !DUH!

First question, how are those non-displaying speed signs (which show yellow in the HUD) implemented in the original route of Feather River Canyon (and maybe other DTG routes as well)?
The physical speed signs are not visible in the editor (or during the driving). For example the right arrow you suggest is not there in that screenshot before that side track where the loco is. It is hidden, but it works They are not either hidden below the terrain. There must be something in the track switches that will show to the player about those switch speed changes.

Here is a screenshot with the HUD with switch set towards the other loco (in direction to Quincy city):

20160412094141_1.jpg
The side track speed limit shows well in FRC but there is no visible speed warning sign (physical sign)
20160412094141_1.jpg (472.56 KiB) Viewed 1568 times

And the other problem is that when FRC was cloned to the FRC Extension, in some moment during the cloning or later, all those speed changes vanished from the route from the Extension beginning and westbound down to Oroville with the exception of very few signs (4 or 5) that are shown over stanchions. May be the problem is that those speed changes in diverging tracks (i.e. switches) are calling to some files in FRC that needed to be distributed as part of the dleeboy´s FRC extension.

I have been in communication with dleeboy discussing this subject, right since that extension was released via dropbox, but we have not found a solution so far. I want to insist because this beautiful route needs to be fully functional.

So help is wanted to understand how those speed signs in FRC are implemented, because it is necessary to incorporate them in the Extension route (which as it has been mentioned many times, the new route has access to the full lenght of the route from Oroville to Portola).

!!**sorry**!! *!!thnx!!* !*snd-help*!
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby Ericmopar » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:25 pm

It could be a hidden scenery item. Look for something that is near locations of the speed signs in the hud. Look for a common denominator. Maybe it's some of those post markers...
I'll see if I can make time later and look at FRC myself.
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:43 pm

Ericmopar wrote:It could be a hidden scenery item. Look for something that is near locations of the speed signs in the hud. Look for a common denominator. Maybe it's some of those post markers...
I'll see if I can make time later and look at FRC myself.

I would appreciate your help and from others to figure out the cause, but let me post my findings from today (maybe this was published here 2 or 3 years ago. Some help was asked in trainsim.com two years ago:
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?318722-Speed-limits-not-showing-in-cloned-routes
No one answered that question in trainsim.com. Maybe this has been discussed before here in RWA.

Basically what this post suggests is that when cloning a route all non-visible speed limit markers vanish when a route is cloned (I am adding the "non-visible"). There is a possible reason in a wrong address in the tracks.bin or elsewhere.

However, the physical speed signs (on a stanchion or other support) will remain displayed in the HUD. I think there are only 7 of those in the complete FRC route (because of the tracks.bin count I did). One of those is the 10 mph sign from the trestle to Crescent Mills (and back before the tunnel).

So once I read this post, I cloned the DTG FRC route and as expected, the speed warnings had vanished (the ones I named as invisible), except the 7 instances of physical stanchion signs (the tracks.bin count). Those were not deleted.

Remember then, that only those invisible speed limit markers are deleted. But to start with, I have not a clue about how DTG (or third parties) implement those. And this is what I need to know about. I think it has to do with the tracks rules.

A solution to that would help to get the FRC Extension route on wheels. Later on we will solve the QD route enabling.

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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:50 pm

Eric,
I found the cause and the required solution. You won´t believe how easy is the solution! !*roll-laugh*!

The problem is caused during the cloning of any route. The operation gets rid of all speed warning signs (which I call invisible) in places like crossovers. It will not do anything with the physical signs as I said above.

The cause is an automatic change in a flag in the RouteProperties.xml **!!bang!!**
Cloning changes the HasSpeedsigns flag from 0 (default value) to 1. Every time you clone a route you have to set it back to 0 if you want those signs back. It is located towards the end of the xml file:

Code: Select all
<HasSpeedsigns d:type="bool">0</HasSpeedsigns>


I still don´t know how they are created or set, but they could be just automatic for all diverging tracks with different speed limit, from the main track.

Tomorrow I will do some testing using the FRC extension and report back. !!*ok*!!
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby Ericmopar » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:37 pm

That's interesting, but I got curious and checked several routes and the 1 value is default on most routes for "has speed signs" .
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:12 am

Ericmopar wrote:That's interesting, but I got curious and checked several routes and the 1 value is default on most routes for "has speed signs" .

Definitively those speed signs are automatic for diverging tracks with different speeds and the speed change happens right in the switch motor (or hand changer). I have looked at dleeboy´s FRC Extension and the "invisible" speed warnings are there in crossovers, when there is a change in speed. The route still needs some manual signs but that will be a job for the coming days.

I suppose that in those routes you checked, the speed limits used are physical signs only.
The UK Western Lands of Scotland route has a 1. You don´t wish to have automatic signs there (and shouldn´t be for a 1970 Feather river Canyon, I think).

In Sherman Hill it is zero but there are several sign posts, like in the beginning of the route from Laramie to the cement (or whatever) plant.

Something interesting to check with Minerman is that his Bergen route has not the automatic speed signs enabled (flag is 1). Maybe he wanted to have post signs.
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby Acela2034 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:10 am

jalsina wrote:Eric,
I found the cause and the required solution. You won´t believe how easy is the solution! !*roll-laugh*!

The problem is caused during the cloning of any route. The operation gets rid of all speed warning signs (which I call invisible) in places like crossovers. It will not do anything with the physical signs as I said above.

The cause is an automatic change in a flag in the RouteProperties.xml **!!bang!!**
Cloning changes the HasSpeedsigns flag from 0 (default value) to 1. Every time you clone a route you have to set it back to 0 if you want those signs back. It is located towards the end of the xml file:

Code: Select all
<HasSpeedsigns d:type="bool">0</HasSpeedsigns>


I still don´t know how they are created or set, but they could be just automatic for all diverging tracks with different speed limit, from the main track.

Tomorrow I will do some testing using the FRC extension and report back. !!*ok*!!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! My main project (New York to New Haven Revamp) is more user-friendly again!!!
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:56 am

Welcome! :D
I have learned a lot more since that post.
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby gtrtroger » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:13 am

Don’t know how I missed this thread, but “Thanks” jalsina!
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Re: Feather River Canyon speed limit signs (plus the Extension)

Unread postby jalsina » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:18 pm

!!*ok*!!
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