Big Boy Performance?

[Griphos]

I picked up the Big Boy in the recent sale. I had the Challenger, and have driven it a number of times. I like it a lot. I just drove the Big Boy for the first time in Johnathan's trial scenario for his Big Steam pack. It's set on the Castle Rock. I always get great performance on that route. But driving the Big Boy had me down in the teens a number of times. I'm wondering if it's all that fantastic smoke effects (I love how it seems to respond to the wind and blow in different directions at different times). I can live with it, because it's so fun to drive, and I'll try it on some other routes/scenarios, but just wondered if others have the same performance hit with it. I don't notice any hit with the Challenger.

[arizonachris]

Down in the teens, you mean frame rate or speed on the track? I don't have the Big Boy on Castle Rock so I can't try it. Can you try running it in free roam on Castle Rock? Doug's scenario and the Billionaire Benefactor work fine, so does Tori's.

[Griphos]

Yeah, frame rate. I tried a free roam on Castle Rock, and also the Benefactor scenario on BSB, and then tried Johnathan's scenario again. I think the issue is when the smoke from the stack flows into the "face" of the camera when there is a lot of scenery around (either AI or just objects). When the smoke blows to the other side or above, FPS is fine, but when straight into the "camera" of the view, then it drops. It dropped the most on Johnathan's scenario, but that may be because there's a lot going on in it. On the Billionaire Benefactor scenario, it ran at my 30 FPS lock pretty much all the time, even when passing other trains. But then there's not much scenery on BSB.

Tons of fun driving that big steam! I need to learn more about boiler and steam chest pressures and water consumption and levels, though.

[gwgardner]

I get that drastic framerate drop in the stream of smoke or steam with every engine I've tried. It's the only effect that reduces my framerates to stuttering.

[Griphos]

Thanks for affirming my hunch. I think I've only noticed it with the Big Boy, because it's the only one that has the smoke falling down alongside the engine instead of puffing away up into the sky (very nice touch, by the way, since every Steam train I've ridden on seemed to have the smoke fall down like that...always go home smelling of soot and cinders! )

I tend to drive all the steam locos with head out of the window. Can't see a blessed thing inside the cab of that Big Boy anyway!

[XDriver]

I've spent a bit of time modifying my Big boy and also ended up using some smoke files from the Challenger. I get this result (pic) and it seems to have helped the framrate some as long as I'm not putting the camera right into the smoke.

[Griphos]

That's good looking smoke! Is it a difficult mod?

[XDriver]

If you have the Challenger, It's a matter of using the smoke files from the Assets\IHH\US Railroads\Particles folder. Would be Challenger_SmokeStack.bin, SecondaryStack.bin and Stationary.bin. Copy those 3 files and paste them in your Big boy. Assets\IHH\Big Boy\Particles folder. Back up the 3 you're gona replace, ie, Big Boy_SmokeStack.bin, Big Boy_Piston_Steam.bin and Big Boy_StaticSmoke.bin. The rest goes without saying.
---Rename----
Challenger_SmokeStack.bin to Big Boy_SmokeStack.bin
SecondaryStack.bin to Big Boy_Piston_Steam.bin
Stationary.bin to Big Boy_StaticSmoke.bin

This is the simplest way. I did some other stuff too but this should get you in the right direction.
Make sure to backup anything you're messing with! Always have a backup.

[Griphos]

Easy enough. Thanks for the detailed description.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

In fact, I like both smoke effects. A standing or slow moving loco can have its black smoke drifting down besides or over the engine.
A fast moving loco or heavy working loco should have its smoke rising up, in grey or pure white because of its exhaust, like in the Challenger pic.

Is it possible to have the smoke effect change automatically and gradually on load?

Regarding the Big Boy's performance, I think the stock IHH model is a rather poor performer.
Since the MSTS model of C&O's H8 2-6-6-6 Superpower "Allegheny" still sits quietly on the erecting floor of my 3D Canvas while I am contemplating on how to get the model exported I use the Big Boy as a worthy substitute.
For my COARW motive power tests I have substituted the Big Boy for Diesels in several scenarios with those 12000 - 16000 tons coal trains that are scripted to weigh that much.
One stock Big Boy up front and one pushing barely made it to the top of the grade at Alleghany at snail's pace and required constant sanding in wet and snow conditions.
I presume the pusher is actually working, as it has no exhaust beat and smokes like standstill.

So I opened the .bin files in RW_Tools and compared them with the IHH Challenger.
I noticed in the stock Big Boy both front and rear engine frames weigh 400 resp 500 units and have considerably lower friction compared to Challenger of 0.25, 0.15 and 0.05 respectively for dry, wet and snow.
I changed the mass to 240 for front and 260 for rear engine and changed the friction values to those of Challenger, 0.83, 0.33 and 0.17. The mass is probably still too high but with approximately 30 tons axle loading might be closer to the real values. If only RSC explains what these values mean, which units are used and how they are evaluated by the physics engine into actual performance.
While I was at it, I added a projecting headlight to the front frame and a cab light to the main frame, so that I am able to see what's up ahead in "Up Alleghanies - Storm" scenario.

These hacked Big Boys pull better, now almost making line speed (30 MpH as per C&O employee timetablee) a couple miles out of Alderson at 100% throttle and 30-40 % cut-off on level track in a copy of "8 Geeps, 140 cars!" scenario. I assume those RWA Greenville hoppers have a 100 t capacity and weigh about 20 t empty. Given the period, late 50's - early 70's, in reality those would have been 70 ton hoppers at most. In fact, given the 7500 tons rating of real Alleghenies and the length of the sidings up at Alleghany, Va. where the pusher would be cut off, those cars should have been 50 ton hoppers. This calls for more experiments of course, once I found 50 ton 2 bay and 70 ton three bay steam era hoppers.
Perhaps a Challenger can be hacked into an Allegheny, but how do I get 40 tons on each of the drivers' axles? 6 drivers at 40 tons vs 8 drivers at 30 tons, Lima's finest Superpower technology vs. ALCo's pride, wouldn't that be interesting? it will require completely new engine simulation data of course, but those can be used once the real Allegheny is available for TS12.

Climbing out of Ronceverte from standstill in the "Up the Alleghanies - Storm" and "Pusher Trials" the Big Boys perform better too with the 100 car trains of Kuju's Bethgons fully loaded. Still, Big Boy requires attentive operation and precise control of throttle, cut-off and sanders. As soon as the boiler pressure starts to drop you are bound to loose speed and eventually stall.

The steam generation and usage gauges always stay very low while the fire gauge remains high.
Is that prototypical or do these need to be hacked also to give them a more realistic and "lively" display?

The water level in the boiler varies considerably on "automatic fireman" and the lengthy applications of the live steam injector consumes lots of steam. Boiler pressure drops a full mark, detracting from the engine's performance. Perhaps this behaviour should be looked into as well?

I don't want to touch the "engine simulation data" or alter those graphs without prior knowledge because I don't want the loco to become unrealistic and supernatural.

Still, Diesels outperform steamers at the low speeds on Tori's route.

[XDriver]

A couple things.
I did hack on the water injector so it's takes less time to get the water up to full. I also made the shoveling rate faster.
You were saying that when using a pusher or any steam combo, it's makes no chug and don't know if it's working. I discovered that you have to drive both locos to get it to work. Start out in your front engine and once moving jump in the cab of the other and start pulling levers. You'll see.

[_o_OOOO_oo-Kanawha]

I shall try to hack that Big Boy some more. I don't mind slow injection, I do mind the water level dropping a full notch, i.e.20 % before the injector cuts in. I hardly ever drive from the cab, but need to check the water glasses and see if their indication varies like the HUD. I wonder what IHH made of those glasses given these drastic level changes of which I don't know if they are in any way prototypical. Big Boy has a long boiler, a long firebox and hence a huge crown sheet that needs to be covered with water at all times, so I thik a 20% variation is way too much.

Need to look into those firing, production and usage scales as well to make them more indicative of the engine workings.

As to controlling the Big Boy pushing, in Tori's orginal scenarios the lead engineer controls the pushing Diesels thru some command scripts hacked into the coal cars.
In "8 Geeps, 140 cars!" the 3 GP9's pushing throttle up and down as required. That 140 car train is so long and there is so much slack in the "stiff" (hacked off this board) couplers still that it takes a while before the pushers start moving. Likewise in the other scenarios involving Diesels pushing the lead engineer controls the pusher.
Assuming it responded to the throttle I further assume it also adds power. The pusher's rear headlights switch with the lead engine. The throttle does loose its "notches" and sometimes the lever cannot be moved from the cab but still responds to the HUD.
But those pushers do make a marked difference in train performance! Over on COARW board I am trying all kinds of combinations of motive power to check and compare their performance.

RSC has a lot of explaining to do and needs to catch up, in order to make TS12 a real simulator.

Since I could not substitute the Diesels for Big Boys using RW_Tools save for the rear frame (with the cab), I had to add the front frames and tenders in the TS12 scenario editor. Perhaps this broke the scripted control line? Shall need to copy an original scenario again and leave the Diesel pusher in place to check.
Perhaps this script also needs to be added to the Big Boy tender to pass control messages to the trailing train? Then what about the front and rear frames? Is Big Boy two engines in one and has it "internal m.u."? Looking at the .bins in RW_Tools suggests so.
Or should I assume beforehand that steam engines have no "external" m.u. or remote control built into them because they never had it in prototype?

Pushing buttons and pulling levers in the cab sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Throttle is mostly OK, lights, horn, bell and wipers often don't work as they should. Depends on the "red" engine, the one who has control focus in the HUD and wether all commands are passed untouched along the train I suppose. The red engine's horn blares, the others remain mute.

[bpetit]

Um, is it possible to release that super hacked big boy?