ATC Screw Up or Me?

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ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby Q2DM1 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:17 pm

I decided to plan a flight from Louisville, KY to Orlando FL. My IFR plan has me going in a general S-SE direction. ATC, however, told me to fly runway heading (N-NW [opposite direction]) and to climb to 13,000 feet. The following conversation starts when I request IFR clearance (me in blue).

Airbus F-MSAB is cleared to Orlando airport as filed. Fly runway heading, climb and maintain 13,000. Departure frequency is 123.675, squawk 0415.
Airbus F-MSAB, cleared to Orlando airport as filed. Fly runway heading, climb and maintain 13,000. Departure on 123.675, squawk 0415.
Airbus SAB, readback correct. Contact ground on 124.2.
Louisville Approach, Airbus F-MSAB is type Airbus A321, 5 miles southwest of KJVY. Request flight following.
Airbus F-MSAB, Louisville Approach. Squawk 6457.
Squawk 6457, Airbus SAB.
Airbus SAB, radar contact 4 miles west of KJVY, 8,100. Altimeter 2992
Airbus SAB, please acknowledge.
Copy, Airbus SAB.
Airbus SAB contact Indianapolis Center on 124.775.
124.775, Airbus SAB.
Indianapolis Center, Airbus F-MSAB with you, 13,000.
Airbus F-MSAB, Indianapolis Center, roger. Altimeter 2992


Did ATC perhaps want to move me to a different runway? I took off after it told me to contact ground, which I didn't do because I was confused as to why it would want me to that. Do I just need to start my aircraft on the correct runway? Should I choose a different VOR as my starting point, because I read somewhere that ATC has trouble if the initial VOR is too close to the airport?
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby Angelo » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:46 pm

Well initially you filed and were cleared on an IFR flight plan. Then later you request VFR flight following? I don't know how that happened but that would be the mixup in my eyes.

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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby Q2DM1 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:03 pm

I usually request a flight following whenever I start any flight and plan on using ATC (didn't know it was a VFR thing). I restarted the flight on the opposite end of the runway and did everything ATC told me to do, including contacting ground. Ground took me off the runway, down to the other end, and told me to hold short and contact them when ready. Once I was there and contacted them, they told me I was clear to take off. Once I was in the air, they told me to contact Louisville departure. This tells me that my screw up was when I took off instead of contacting ground, lol. I'll also start from the gates from now on.

I assume that when they tell you to "turn L/R on heading XXX and resume own navigation," I have to cross my waypoint before doing whatever I want?
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby buzz456 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:23 pm

It would appear that you should not have filed a IFR flight plan. Under a IFR plan you would be in positive control by whoever is online and they would keep communicating until you passed out of their sector at which time they would hand you off or tell you the next sector is off line. When you checked in with the new guy if you are on a IFR plan you should say xyz with you at 13,000 or whatever. They should know where you are at and then they take positive control.

If you are on a VFR plan then after a resume own navigation instruction you are on your own unless you ask for flight following in which case they only give you traffic until you enter a positively controlled air space at which time they will direct you to your destination.
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby Angelo » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:49 pm

Buzz, he's using FSX default ATC system. Q2DM1 flying an Airbus you'd most probably be wanting to file IFR. VOR to VOR, or High Altitude airways. Routes calculated by FSX sometimes are wonky, I recommend using www.flightaware.com and looking up recently used IFR routes. You can enter your Origin and Destination airports and it will give you the most valid real world route fro the given weather.

When you landed in your example you most probably landed on the non wind favoring runway, and the runway in use was the one ground sent you to, which was why you got sent to the other side. Ground control does not own the runways unless they are marked closed, and you can only receive a takeoff clearance from tower control.

Here's the exact link for the flightplans http://flightaware.com/statistics/ifr-route/
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby buzz456 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:56 pm

What you say is all true in which case he should not have been asking for flight following. I always started from a terminal or some such place so I didn't start on top of someone else. In that way you normally get a "taxi to runway such and such" instruction. I don't know about you but a lot of times in my day on FS there was only one controller around and he or she seemed to handle multiple functions.
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby Q2DM1 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:00 pm

I'm using vanilla FSX right now. I had my aircraft spawned on the runway, which ATC didn't like. But I'm up in the air now and everything seems to be in order.
*EDIT*
Asking for a following was mistake number two.

Also, when I posted this (with my phone), FSX decided to crash when I tried to chance camera views.
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby Q2DM1 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:21 pm

I made it to my destination, but the runway ATC wants me to land at has no ILS at all. I requested a different runway, but:
1. The runway only has a localizer and no glide slope.
2. The runway (a different one from number 1) had nothing? It showed on the map and I keyed it into the radio, but it acted like it didn't exist.

How can I tell, from the map, if a runway has a localizer and a glide slope both?

*EDIT*
????????
I flew the runway from number 1 in the list and it has a glide slope? I even grabbed a Learjet and did a circle and was able to get the AP to fly it.
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby buzz456 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:44 pm

There is a place out there called http://airnav.com/. Click on airports and there are all of the approaches listed for you to download for any airport. Real world stuff.
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Re: ATC Screw Up or Me?

Unread postby trev123 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:45 am

Q2DM1 wrote:I made it to my destination, but the runway ATC wants me to land at has no ILS at all. I requested a different runway, but:
1. The runway only has a localizer and no glide slope.
2. The runway (a different one from number 1) had nothing? It showed on the map and I keyed it into the radio, but it acted like it didn't exist.

How can I tell, from the map, if a runway has a localizer and a glide slope both?

*EDIT*
????????
I flew the runway from number 1 in the list and it has a glide slope? I even grabbed a Learjet and did a circle and was able to get the AP to fly it.


Haven't used FSX for a while but you can go into map view and zoom in on the airport you are going to and it shows you the ILS runways plus the heading and ILS radio frequency. Another possible reason it got you to land on a different runway was because of the wind direction. Got many hours on MS FS since MS98 to FSX.
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